Here's a thought-provoking short story I read on a blog I found recently. I can relate to it; I'm tired of being alone. Lone Christianity is an oxymoron; we're not meant to be alone; we're meant to be many members of one body. In my own strength I can't do anything, but in Christ I can do all things. The body of Christ (the church) is meant to love each other and help each other, even in all our many failures and faults, to abide in Christ. I'm afraid to open up and be so vulnerable and transparent; to let people see my weakness. Lord, I ask that Your perfect love would cast out fear.
The Lonely Christian-A Short Story
UPDATE:
I have some reservations about the ideas in the story, after thinking about it and discussing it with my husband. I want so much for the 'togetherness' aspect of the story to be true that I ignored a few danger signals that were mentioned in the story. I'll come back later and go into those things more specifically.
UPDATE TWO:
Some of the things that my husband and I both noticed in the story are:
1. The story seemed to say that salvation comes from coming to the body of Christ and being united to it, rather than coming to Christ Himself.
2. The story seemed to say that talking about Jesus isn't important.
3. The story seemed to say that standing alone on doctrine is wrong. Sometimes it is necessary to stand alone.
I need to say that the other blog posts I have read by this author do not give these same ideas so far. I wonder if he realizes that he has conveyed these ideas in this story. I will update again as I find out more.
UPDATE THREE: I think the comments under the story post on John's blog will help clarify the author's meaning in the story. He has answered some of my husband's concerns, and it seems we may have misunderstood some things. It seems the original meaning I got from it was what the author intended: That the church is the body of Christ and it's members are to be united in Him and be in close relationship to each other, with each member playing a vital part to help the others so the body can function rightly.
38 comments:
Jennie, I am surprised that you find yourself feeling lonely! You have a husband and beautiful children. If you feel lonely, then what must I say about myself? My husband left four years ago, and I have no children. At first, I felt really, really lonely, but God has been good. He has filled that lonely vacuum in my heart, and I never ever feel alone at any time at all!
They say the loneliest place is in a crowd and how true that is. When we are faced with internal struggles that people do not understand, it is then that we feel lonely. I have come to realize that people will never understand, and finding people who truly understand will never be. I guess this is God's way of telling us that only He alone truly understands.
P.s. I also think the church is also at fault for the state the body is in. We are too 'conservative' in our approach to human relations. We shun affection, physical contact, and brotherhood as if those things are for weird sects and cults only. Where are the churches that minister to the widows ( women with divorced or dead husbands), single mothers, orphans, abused women, the hungry, the sick, and the financially strapped? If we spent more time ministering to each other, then we would not feel so isolated.
You are exactly right about the state of the church. People are afraid to open up too much to each other, and relationships often remain on the surface. I am to blame for my part of this, being very introverted, I am also afraid and get very emotional when I have to share anything personal. I want to be involved more personally with the body of believers so we can truly help and pray for each other. Things are much too formal (not as far as the service goes, but in relationships) and there are surface social relationships but people who are not exciting, cool, and/or extroverted often get left out. Everyone is necessary for the body to function, as Romans 12 and other passages say.
You are also right about me being blessed with a great family. I am very, very thankful for them all. However, when I have trouble with my relationships with them, or when my husband and I have trouble, we need to have open relationships with others to help us and pray for us, not just pretend everything's ok because no one else has opened up about their troubles. I'm the last one to have a right to criticize, but I see the need.
Hillary,
Hearing your story I feel bad for complaining. I am glad God has been so good to you in your trouble. I think He is doing something in myself and my family too, to help me be more vulnerable and not be afraid and self-conscious, but to be open and unafraid. But it's very hard for me. Please pray for me. I will pray for you too.
Another thought about being alone. There will be times when Christians have to stand alone upon the truth; stand alone doing what is right. But it's a different thing to be a believer in a church and to feel alone. This shouldn't be. Like I said, alot of my problem is my own fear, but it seems like popularity is often a factor in people choosing who to be friends with, instead of everyone being loved and welcomed alike.
Jennie, what about relatives? In our society we tend to down play the role of relatives a lot. Relatives are an important part of the social system of families, and one can always find a friend or two among cousins, aunts, nephews, nieces, in-laws, and so on. God gave us relatives as a part of our community. Jesus was not afraid to recruit relatives in His following. He had his aunt (Salome), aunt-in-law (Mary wife of Cleopas), cousins James, John, and Matthew all following Him, plus His mother. Not to mention the family of Mary Magdalene with Martha, Lazarus, and Simon the leper. I tell you, no one has to be alone, unless one wants to be that way.
I have no husband, but I have a large extended family. Yes, we fuss with each other, but regardless of what happens, we can depend on each other to be there.
Peace.
P.S. The nice thing about relatives is that you don't have to pretend that everything is all right when it is not. They know you well, and can spot phony behavior from a distance! LOL!
With church folks, they kind of expect you to be perfect, so if anything happens out of the ordinary, they are easily put off. It is very difficult to find church friends who accept you for who you really are, without them judging you.
Hillary,
We have a really great extended family on both sides, and most are Christians, but but we live in different cities and/or states. There is something to be said for a close community of saints that can be in daily interaction. Maybe it needs to start with me; I'm the worst at it, but God will give grace when we depend on Him for strength.
Dear Jennie,
It has been a long time since my last posting, mainly because it became clear that I was unable to reach your heart with my comments.
Well, I just stopped by again and this time I simply prayed to get through to the real person. Here is what struck me for whatever it is worth.
Your writing tells me that you are not really experiencing the peace that surpasses all understanding. I am convinced that your soul is yearning for the Eucharist that you once faithfully received as a child.
There is a reason why there are numerous incorruptible bodies of saints, but only of Catholics. There is a reason why there are many Eucharistic miracles, all with the same blood type as on the Shroud of Turin...it is because Jesus is showing that the Eucharist is indeed His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
We cannot help but be transformed by that and become one body...not lonely.
Jennie, this was written not as a criticism, but out of love. Please come back home!
Leo,
I'm glad to see you again, and believe me, your concern for me has always 'reached my heart'. But Leo, I can't accept your invitation because 'home' isn't the Catholic church; it is Christ Himself, and I do have peace when I rest in Him; it's when I forget to do this and try to depend on my own strength that I lose peace. Part of the Christian life is learning to do this. Another part is learning to love one another as Christ commanded; my problem is that the institutionalized churches of today have no room for the true intimate fellowship that would really help us to lift one another up. The true Eucharist is our fellowship with the Body of Christ, first with our Head who is Jesus Christ, and also with our fellow believers; breaking the bread and drinking the wine together in obedience to Christ symbolizes this union and brings the presence of Jesus in a special way. Most Baptist churches practice the Supper very seldom and when they do it is mostly just a ritual without full understanding, because they haven't been practicing fellowship with Christ or each other in between. By fellowship I don't mean the usual surface relationships that usually happen in churches.
On the other hand the Catholic Church has gone in another direction of error in making the Eucharist into a metaphysical and priestly ritual that also separates people from true understanding of salvation and fellowship. It is sometimes accompanied by signs and wonders, but I think we've already had the conversation about the fact that signs and wonders can be false.
I'd be glad if you'd stick around and join in the conversation, but I know that I would be in disobedience to God if I entered the Roman Catholic Church.
Jennie,
Yes, signs and wonders can indeed be false...but, they can also be true...
Let me also say that if you truly believe in your heart that becoming a Catholic would be wrong, then you would surely be committing a mortal sin to join. This is also true if a Jew believed in his heart that becoming a Christian would be sinful, by the way. He would likewise be committing a mortal sin to leave his faith.
I only wish that you could see beyond the external and thus experience the Truth of the Eucharist. Imagine two paintings in a room with no light. One is a masterpiece and the other but a simple smattering of paint. Each could have the same percentages of the same chemicals and be indistinguishable by available measurement techniques. Yet, the light would reveal the profound difference.
You are like the scientist in the dark room,telling me that both paintings are of equal value. Mind you, it is not my blind, misguided conviction that adds value to the masterpiece. It has an intrinsic worth which one simply cannot see without the special gift of Faith from our Father in heaven. I pray that He turns the light on for you...
Leo,
if each of us thinks the other is blind, we might both be right about each other I guess, but if one of us is right, how do we know which? It's hard to tell you're blind if you've never seen light before. I know there are things in the Catholic Church that would be a sin for me to practice, and that's all I can say. I've said everything else in this blog before.
I don't believe the paintings are of equal value; I believe I am seeing pretty clearly which one is the masterpiece. It's not protestantism OR catholicism, however, but wherever true believers meet together in love and unity and truth and the Spirit. I see just as much wrong in alot of protestantism, I just have been focused on catholicism for a while. I've moved on a bit to studying about what IS the true church and what should it look like and act like.
Jennie,
The painting which I was referring to as the masterpiece, is the Eucharist. I was not referring to Catholicism vs. Protestantism. Actually, it so happens that Communion in each of our churches is exactly as we believe it to be.
You believe your Communion to be merely bread and grape juice because it is. Likewise, we believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ because it is. Martin Luther believed that it was also, because he was a validly ordained priest is a priest forever and his words of Consecration were valid.
You do not believe that your Communion is a masterpiece because you know that it is not. We believe the Eucharist is a masterpiece because we know that it is. It is the source and summit of salvation...Jesus Christ Himself in the Flesh...
As I have said, one needs the gift of Faith from our Heavenly Father to see this. This is not meant as a slam, since my faith is through no merit of my own.
Leo,
here is an earlier blog post that has some discussion and comments I would like to share with you instead of rewriting everything.
http://pilgrimsdaughter.blogspot.com/2010/03/conversation-about-eucharist-paul-pavao.html
Here is a short article as well about the development of the idea of the 'real presence'. Almost since the beginning of the church, there has been a variety of views about the nature of the eucharist.
http://www.jesuswalk.com/lords-supper/history-real-presence.htm
The body of Christ is not a piece of bread, it is Jesus Himself united with His Church, which is calle the Body of Christ, and He is our head. The supper is our celebration and remembrance of Him and our looking for His coming with joy. It is our loving Him and each other as He commanded us to do.
I also meant to add that I see what you meant about the eucharist being the masterpiece, and it doesn't change my earlier answer. The masterpiece is neither the Catholic ritual nor the protestant ritual, but the true believers everywhere who gather and love Christ and each other with their heart, soul, mind, and strength and live this every day by the power of the Holy Spirit and God's word which dwells in them.
Here's another post I just put up which links to another blog; it has three posts about Christ and the Church, the Bridegroom and the Bride. http://pilgrimsdaughter.blogspot.com/2010/05/drunken-mystic-among-lilies-part-1.html
Jennie,
Jesus reversed the concept of uncleanness because He was not made unclean by touching the unclean. Rather, He made them clean. So too with the Eucharist...when we eat food, the food is transformed into us. When we eat the Eucharist, however, we are transformed into Him. It literally makes us holy! It is not some nice remembrance meal. I know you cannot see this and you will try to give me a million references that are simply missing the point too. Please read carefully on my next response from your own post, as I quote it. Try not to immediately focus on how you can disprove me but on how I could possibly be right.
Jennie,
Quotes from "Jesus Walk"
1.Paul's language "the body and blood of the Lord" in reference to eating the Lord's Supper unworthily (1 Corinthians 11:27), of course, was very early, though most Protestants would contend that he was speaking figuratively, not literally.
A. Exactly! PROTESTANTS(i.e.post A.D. 1500)Sure...condemned literally for profaning something figurative...and Scripture no less.
2.A survey of the early Church Fathers indicates that the earliest documents and Fathers such as the Didache (late first century)2 and Justin Martyr (died c. 165)3 don't assert the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the sacrament. Ignatius (died about 107) comes closer when he protested of his Gnostic opponents that "they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."4
A. Read carefully. He says 'the early Father Justin Martyr said nothing. First, he was wrong(Eucharist...is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66:1-20 [A.D. 148]). Second, he curiously quotes Ignatius AFTER despite the fact that he died in 107AD, well BEFORE Justin, "the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ." And he only says that this comes closer? He protects the Protestantism more than the media protect Obama...
As I said, I will keep you in my prayers and I have asked the Blessed Mother to pray for you as well ;-)
But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ROMANS 10:8-10
John 17:17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
Leo,
we are not made into Him by eating the bread, but by 'eating' His word by faith. That's what He meant in John 6. His Spirit lives in us, and His word enters us as we abide in it; the Spirit and the Word transform us and sanctify us and conform us to His image.
I think you already know how I feel about praying to Mary. If you want to pray for me, please pray to God, as He commands.
I know I am probably frustrating you, but I DO understand what you are saying about the eucharist; I just also see that the Catholic Eucharist is exclusive of all other believers and that it is base on the centuries-old development of tradition and ritual rather than on the Spirit and Truth of God's word. There is a kernel of truth there, but all the trappings are added by men.
The main thing I want you to see is that we don't need a priest to consecrate bread and wine to receive Jesus; That is what shows that the Roman Catholic ritual of the eucharist is not correct. It places the priest between the believers and Christ, replacing the veil that was torn once for all. Jesus is our high priest (and we are the priests of God to the world around us) and He Himself gives us the bread and wine: the bread and wine is His body that was torn and His blood that was shed on the cross, which we receive by faith through the Word and the Spirit, not by eating a piece of bread. The bread and wine is the symbol and the act of celebration is the sacrament that represents His sacrifice and also represents the unity of Christ and His body, the church. In other words, His broken body and shed blood IS our bread and wine by faith; the man-made bread and wine is a symbol of His actual body which gives us life by His death and resurrection. You have it backwards.
The fact that you say the RC eucharist is the true one and no one else has it shows that you don't understand Jesus and His church. Maybe most people, both protestants and catholics, don't fully understand it.
We can't be united as brothers and sisters in Christ under the Catholic system of ritual and the papacy. Those things divide us. We can learn from each other, but maybe not in the way you think.
If you read Revelation 2 and 3, you will see that Jesus speaks of 'churches' not just one church. Each one was praised or warned for some things. Each had different characteristics, strengths, or faults. The protestant churches, the Catholic church, and the orthodox churches all have their strengths and weaknesses, and as Jesus said, some are about to have their 'lampstand removed' if they don't repent from their respective sins. We all have to listen to the voice of our Lord, and sometimes we have to listen to each other's warnings too. The Catholic church is not the one true church, the bishop of Rome should be the bishop of Rome and not of the whole world, and we can't see eye to eye until you see that. I'm sure you feel the same way about me. How will it all end? :)
Jesus' physical body and blood that He gave us at the cross is our SPIRITUAL bread and wine by faith; the man made bread and wine represent this. That's what I'm trying to say.
John 6:
"35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst."
"50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
"63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."
As long as we are trusting in Jesus who gave us His actual body and blood, coming to Him and believing in Him by faith, then we are saved. It doesn't matter if we think the bread and wine actually become His body and blood, if we are trusting in His body and blood alone by the Spirit of God then we are saved. If we believe His body and blood are our bread and wine (our spiritual food) then we are saved.
So you are saying that the consecrated bread and wine are Jesus' body and blood, and I am saying that Jesus' body and blood are our spiritual bread and wine. Which is it?
Think of all of the foreshadowings in Scripture:
1.Jesus is the Lamb of God.In the Passover, you had to eat the lamb.
2.Bethlehem means 'House of Bread'.
3.He was placed in a manger, where a higher being(God) places actual food for a lower being(us).
4.He is a priest forever(yes, Virginia, that means there is Mass in heaven), according to the order of Melchizedek, who offered bread and wine.
5.It is the ONLY time that His disciples left Him over a teaching.
6.Everyone is invited to become Catholic and receive the Eucharist. It is inclusive for all.
7.You cannot be guilty of profaning a symbol and be punished by death for it.
8.The words for 'eat' in John 6 CANNOT be taken figuratively.
Jennie said,"The Catholic church is not the one true church, the bishop of Rome should be the bishop of Rome and not of the whole world, and we can't see eye to eye until you see that."
Actually, it is, he is and perhaps we cannot, but I pray that we will. If we both get to heaven, we most certainly see eye to eye(if you stand on a chair, since I am 6'7", ha ha)
A few points:
1.Just because the Church is the true Church, does not mean that no one else gets to heaven or that all Catholics do. Jesus gave her to us to preserve the deposit of Faith and to give us the Sacraments.
2.The Holy Father is the only person on earth who sits on the seat of Moses(chair of Peter) and who is protected from ever teaching error on Faith and Morals, hence he is the Bishop of Rome AND the appointed spiritual father of the faithful. Name me ONE teaching on faith and morals of any pope in your lifetime you feel to be in error...
3.The Bishop of Rome prays for everyone on earth every day as part of his office. He never condemns anyone. I thank God for giving us a shepherd to guide us.
Jennie said,"I think you already know how I feel about praying to Mary. If you want to pray for me, please pray to God, as He commands."
1.Jennie, I am not asking YOU to pray to Mary.
2.I do pray to God for you.
3.I also ask our Blessed Mother to pray for you.
4.Be careful about judging that Mary is not in heaven. When Jesus talks about not judging others, He is specifically referring to the state of their souls, not their acitons. That is why the Church has never ruled that any particular person is in hell...not even Judas. If Abraham, Elijah and Moses are in heaven, why would you ever judge that Mary is not?
5. Mary prays for you constantly, as she does for all souls not already condemned to hell.
6. Her prayers are way more effective than mine, so I am doing you a huge favor by asking her to pray for you...you're welcome!
Hi Leo,
Actually, I do believe Mary is in heaven. I believe her spirit went to heaven when she died, just like other believers. I believe her body will be resurrected at the first resurrection that is spoken of in several places in the New Testament, when Christ returns for His people. I just don't believe she was bodily assumed into heaven or that she can hear prayers and grant them. I believe all the saints in heaven can pray for us, but not hear us. They know there are believers that need prayer because they are with God.
I'll answer your other comments ASAP.
Jennie,
You are coming back towards home, praise God! Ha Ha Ha...Actually, think about the logic of what you have just said. If Mary and the Saints in heaven can pray for us, why would you not think that they would be given knowledge of what to pray for? It makes perfect sense that they can hear us, since even Scripture says that our prayers are joined to the prayers of those in heaven. Our prayers rise like incense which, by the way, is some of the symbolism of the incense in the Church...
Regarding Mary's assumption, it is interesting that the burial sites of all of the holy people in the Holy Land are well known, yet not that of Mary. There is but an empty tomb, as for Jesus.
Don't forget that Jesus created her according to His purpose. Since sinfulness(concupiscence) is
inherited(think of alcoholism,etc)His human nature was created perfect. Well, you say, He could have made His human self perfect anyway...true, but then He CHOSE to take 100% of His humanity from Mary, so it would not make sense to bother being born of a woman but not completely so...don't forget that it is always Faith and Reason together.
Think of it this way. The Word united Himself to a human He restored to the perfect, sinless state so He could truly take perfect humanity to permanently unite to His divinity and become Jesus Christ for eternity. It is this hypostatic union and the fact that He humbled Himself to share in our humanity that allows us to someday share in His divinity.
So, you see, by supernaturally becoming the Eucharist, He becomes the Lamb of God and by eating Him, we pass over from death into eternal life. It is all grace and the greatest gift He gives us...Himself. And, just as He healed and made clean by touching, He makes us spiritually clean if we are disposed to it. In other words, He transforms us to prepare us for heaven.
On your comments about the foreshadowings: First of all, all of the foreshadowings still apply if you take them as a spiritual rather than a physical meaning.
1.Jesus is the Lamb of God.In the Passover, you had to eat the lamb.
The lamb of the passover was also a symbol, of God's salvation, and looking forward to Christ our passover lamb. The eating is a spiritual eating of God's word by faith.
7.You cannot be guilty of profaning a symbol and be punished by death for it.
2.Bethlehem means 'House of Bread'.
Again we are speaking of Jesus Himself as our spiritual bread which we eat by faith in Him.
3.He was placed in a manger, where a higher being(God) places actual food for a lower being(us).
Again, while God gives us material food, it ultimately symbolizes His spiritual provision by Christ's sacrifice.
4.He is a priest forever(yes, Virginia, that means there is Mass in heaven), according to the order of Melchizedek, who offered bread and wine.
Yes, and the bread and wine symbolized the future sacrifice of Christ, whose body is our spiritual bread and whose blood cleanses us from sin.
5.It is the ONLY time that His disciples left Him over a teaching.
It may be the only time, but why does that have to make it a literal bread Jesus was talking about. They left because they thought He WAS speaking literally, and didn't understand that He was speaking spiritually, even though He told them He was.
7.You cannot be guilty of profaning a symbol and be punished by death for it.
Are you talking about Paul telling the Corinthians they would be guilty of the body and blood of Christ? Or about the Hebrews and the passover? The Corinthians were profaning the Communion because they were not showing love to each other, but were being selfish in the way they celebrated. The body of Christ is the church congregation, and they were not discerning that they should honor each other and the Lord in that. They were not scolded for profaning the symbol, but the reality of the church (each other and Christ together).
8.The words for 'eat' in John 6 CANNOT be taken figuratively.
Leo, please look up the definition of metaphor. You will see that metaphors ALWAYS use literal language to describe a comparison between a material thing and an idea or a spiritual reality. The words for 'eat' are literal, but they describe a spiritual eating by faith.
Oops, Ignore the first '7' that was pasted in there by mistake.
Jennie,
When Jesus says He is spiritual food, He means it is for the soul, while not denying that it is actual food. It is no coincidence that He was placed in a manger which is for actual food for animals. The word for eat is 'trogos', which means to devour noisily as an animal does. This is a very specific word and hearkens back to the manger scene where we can visualize an animal munching and gnawing on what is placed there.
You said,"You will see that metaphors ALWAYS use literal language to describe a comparison between a material thing and an idea." Yes, Jesus used metaphors, but this is quite different. He said, "I am the door", etc. But, He did not used further literal words such as "You will turn the handle and open me", and this is important. He did not stop at "I am the Bread." He continued with "unless you trogos me..."
You said,"They left because they thought He WAS speaking literally..." Of course they did, because He was. Notice that these were those who had already left their families and had made a commitment to follow Him. He did not clarify for them, nor did He clarify for the Twelve after these went back to their former lives.
The multiplication of loaves is the only miracle that appears in John but also in the synoptics. He uses this to show how He would multiply His own Flesh and uses the same words regarding breaking of the bread. Also, the disciples on the road to Emmaus recognized Him and, once they did, He only remained with them in the Eucharist.
Jennie,
By the way, whether you realize it or not, you have been transformed by Baptism, Confirmation and the Eucharist. Your children have unfortunately not received the same graces. This is where you were filled by the Holy Spirit even though you may not have known it.
It is like squirting chocolate syrup into a glass of milk. It does not become chocolate milk until the milk is stirred up. You were born of the water and spirit at Baptism and were reincorporated into God's family.
Don't forget that the Sacraments are the 'ordinary' means of God's grace and spiritual healing, much as doctors and hospitals are the 'ordinary' means of God's physical healing. It does not restrict God from healing spiritually and physically without priests and doctors, but I still go to priests and doctors while praying and trusting God nonetheless.
I am sure that you believe God can heal your children of physical ailments without doctors, yet I am likewise sure that you take them to doctors while praying for them. Their spiritual life and health are no less important, are they?
Think of it this way. As a Catholic, I pray and cherish Scripture as the infallible word of God just as you do. I gladly receive the Sacraments intended to bestow God's grace on me as well. As a Catholic, I also ask my fellow believers to pray for me, but I include our perfected brothers and sisters in my requests. It is not an either/or situation; it is an and/also situation. Let me share the following excerpt of Church teaching which you may never have heard and I take it both literally and seriously:
"Those who are incorporated in the Catholic Church ought to sense their privilege and for that very reason their greater obligation of bearing witness to the faith and to the Christian life as a service to their brothers and sisters and as a fitting response to God. They should be ever mindful that "they owe their distinguished status not to their own merits but to Christ's special grace; and if they fail to respond to this grace in thought, word and deed, not only will they not be saved, they will be judged more severely".
Jennie,
Bear with me on this, please. I am in China and about to leave to return home, so I am closing with this thought for now...It dawned on me that if you read this encyclical of Pope John Paul II, you will get a great and deep insight as to the mission of the Church and the redeemed. It is long, but you will recognize the Holy Spirit speaking through our Holy Father if you take the time to read all of it prayerfully. Please humor me, since I have read pages and pages of what you have posted and responded to me. You may be quite surprised at the depth and compass of this one simple encyclical. You will also see how the Church is so misrepresented and why Catholics like me get so frustrated at the lack of understanding by our Protestand brothers and sisters. It is at the following link:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_07121990_redemptoris-missio_en.html
He did not clarify for them, nor did He clarify for the Twelve after these went back to their former lives.
Actually, Jesus did clarify to the disciples who remained that He was speaking spiritually and not physically:
John 6:60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
The end of the passage sums it all up when Jesus asks the disciples:
“Do you also want to go away?”
68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
This sums up the purpose of the whole passage, to show that Jesus was talking about eating 'the words of eternal life' not about eating actual bread. The passage is a metaphor comparing bread as physical sustanence to Jesus and His word as our spiritual sustanence. We eat His word and His sacrificed body by faith. We become part of the body of Christ by coming to Him and believing in Him. We abide in Him by devouring His word and the Spirit dwells in us and teaches us by the Word. We know that He is the Son of the Living God because the Holy Spirit comes from the Father and reveals it to us by faith. That is eating His body and blood.
God be with you as you travel, Leo.
I'll read the encyclical.
Jennie, one more thought...
At the Passover, they had to eat the lamb. They could not just eat beef and say that it represented the lamb.
Also, the words are spirit. That in no way means that they are figurative. The Eucharist feeds the spirit and is spiritual food. It is not figurative food or food for the body, but rather food for the soul.
I know it is a hard saying and difficult to accept...
The Orthodox, by the way have a valid Eucharist because they maintained apostolic succession and the formula for Consecration. The mainline Protestants lost all of that.
Actually, it is, he is and perhaps we cannot, but I pray that we will. If we both get to heaven, we most certainly see eye to eye(if you stand on a chair, since I am 6'7", ha ha)
:D
Leo,
From my perspective, the Papacy historically has done immensely more harm than good for the church and the entire world, BECAUSE the church was never meant to be led by one fallible human being. Peter was fallible, and he did not lead the entire church. The apostles all helped while they lived, and the pastors (bishops, elders, presbyters) all led their local congregations. One man leading the whole world has been shown again and again to be a recipe for disaster because, 'absolute power corrupts absolutely.' If you look at the history of the papacy it is one long lesson in that truth. Jesus is the head of the church, and He meant for the Apostles to spread the word, and teach others to do the same, and appoint pastors who would in turn appoint other pastors to start new churches, etc. Churches also could work together to solve problems. We have recently seen how the power structure only serves itself by fostering and covering up wrongdoing. It has to preserve itself at the cost of the people. That is how power operates ALWAYS, unless it is God Himself and men in humble, small congregations.
The Eucharist feeds the spirit and is spiritual food. It is not figurative food or food for the body, but rather food for the soul.
Leo,
the Eucharist is food for the Spirit only if it is recieved by faith. If it is not recieved by faith, it is nothing. But, I don't believe 'the Eucharist' is the physical bread and wine, but it is what the bread represents, which is Christ Himself who once for all died on the cross. Since it can only be recieved by faith by those who are already united with Christ and so have become 'one loaf' with Him and with the other believers, then the Body (which is Christ in heaven united with the believers) is more important than the bread and wine which represent them. You are the one who is not discerning the Body, because it is not the bread, but is the risen Christ and His church united Spiritually.
In other words, the bread does not become Christ, but Christ and His word is our Spiritual bread by faith. The Spirit unites us to Him when we believe His word and come to Him.
By the way, Leo, I have a new post up linking to this post so people can follow the conversation.
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