Repost: The Sabbath Rest series

I am posting a link here to the search page for all posts labeled 'Sabbath' by which I mean Jesus as our Sabbath Rest by faith. It is a very important subject to understand: belief vs. unbelief; salvation begins with justification by faith apart from works, which then produces good works as we live by grace through faith. It is all by grace, which is unmerited favor from God.
Please read the posts in order starting from the one at the bottom of the page.

How Pietism Deceives Christians: The Errors of Elitist Teachings in the Church by Bob DeWaay

Here is an article by Bob DeWaay called 'How Pietism Deceives Christians' which warns Christians, or those who think they are Christians but are trusting in something besides Jesus Christ, about the dangers of pietism. Following is the introduction to the article. Please follow the link above to read the entire article.

There are no extraordinary Christians; but being an ordinary Christian is an extraordinary thing. How I wish I would have understood that when I was a new Christian. But I didn’t. Soon after my conversion I began a quest to become the best possible Christian. In so doing I fell prey to teachings that promised me a Christian life superior to that of ordinary Christians. What I did not know was that I had embraced pietism. I didn’t become an extraordinary Christian and I did walk straight into error.

My journey into the “deeper life” oftentimes involved embracing contradictory teachings. For example, two of my favorite teachers in the early 1970’s were Watchman Nee and Kenneth Hagin. One taught a deeper Christian life through suffering1) and the other taught a higher order Christianity that could cause one to be free from bodily ailments and poverty.2 The hook was that both claimed to have the secret to becoming an extraordinary Christian. I found out that they didn’t.

My dissatisfaction with the Christianity taught in Bible College 3 led me to join a Christian commune some months after graduation. That group’s founder taught that all ordinary churches and Bible Colleges were caught up in “religious Babylon.” He taught that the kingdom of God was to be found by quitting one’s job, selling one’s possessions, giving the money to the commune, and moving in together to be devoted to the “kingdom” twenty four hours a day. So in my search to become an extraordinary Christian I did what he said and joined.

By the time I had fully explored many versions of pietism seeking to escape the tainted Christianity found in ordinary churches, I had squandered the first ten years of my Christian life. I was converted in 1971 and by 1981 I had given up on becoming a superior Christian. I bought a house for my family and began a car repair business to pay the bills while I tried to figure out what to do with my calling to preach now that most everything I had been taught, practiced, and taught others had failed.

By God’s grace I went back to the Bible and determined to merely teach verse by verse from that point on. It took another five or six years to rid myself of the various errors I had embraced and then I taught Romans in 1986. Through that study I came to appreciate the doctrines of grace. That understanding opened my thinking and was the turning point for my ministry. I also came to realize that the wrong-thinking that attracted me to pietism was that I held to a theology based on human ability rather than grace alone. Once I grasped that, I never looked back.

If the “secret” to a higher order Christianity is based on something we discover and implement (the secret to the deeper life), then it makes sense that some Christians could achieve a higher status than others. But if salvation AND sanctification are God’s work through His grace, then we are all in the same boat, and there’s no higher order.

The Battle for Faith

UPDATE ADDED BELOW
Here is a small article that is a transcript for a segment of the 'Understand the Times Radio Commentary' with Roger Oakland, called 'The Battle for Faith.'
I had saved this some time ago and as I am going through my saved drafts to finalize and publish some of them, I felt this one would be helpful; it is always good to remember that we have an enemy who is constantly seeking whom he may devour: 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. 10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. 11 To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Roger has a good testimony, which he briefly mentions here, of being deceived by Satan but then realizing this and coming out of the false way and back to the Truth of Christ again. Now he has a testimony to share with others of how easy it is to be deceived. God worked everything for the good, so others might be shown the way back to the Truth as well, or hopefully avoid the deception altogether. I had a reader here a while back who couldn't fathom that God would allow a sincere person who is seeking the truth to be deceived, yet it happens all the time. Most of us have stories of falling for deception of some kind or at some level. Praise God that He leads many out and lets them be lights for others.
Update:
After I went to bed last night I thought of something to add to this post, but didn't feel like getting back up to add it then. While thinking about why God would allow someone to be deceived, it came to me that God allowed Eve to be deceived. You'd think this would be obvious, but we tend to think of ourselves as some special case that God would never allow to fall. God surely saw what was happening to Eve, and we can be sure that He loved her as her creator and that she loved God, who walked with her in the garden every day; yet He didn't come rushing in to rescue her and remind her of His command when the serpent began speaking lies. He allowed it to happen, according to His plan, and it brought death and misery upon her, her husband, and all their children. Why then should we assume that God will not allow us, to whom He has revealed His word just as He did to Eve, to fall into sin and be deceived if we listen to the serpent and ignore His commands? Scary isn't it, but 'the fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.'

Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Broad Path Evangelicalism

Here is a link to a good post on 'Thoughts of Francis Turretin.'

They shall all be taught by God

These are passages of Scripture that show that God teaches His people directly through His word by His Spirit. This post goes along with the 'Three-Legged Stool' post because that also shows that God is our foundation and teacher by the word and the Spirit. If anyone has any passages to share that show God teaching us directly, please share them!

John 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Psalm 71:
16 I will go in the strength of the Lord GOD;
I will make mention of Your righteousness, of Yours only.

17 O God, You have taught me from my youth;
And to this day I declare Your wondrous works.

Psalm 119:
9 How can a young man cleanse his way?
By taking heed according to Your word.
10 With my whole heart I have sought You;
Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments!
11 Your word I have hidden in my heart,
That I might not sin against You.
12 Blessed are You, O LORD!
Teach me Your statutes.

Psalm 32:
8 I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;
I will guide you with My eye.
9 Do not be like the horse or like the mule,
Which have no understanding,
Which must be harnessed with bit and bridle,
Else they will not come near you.

Proverbs 2:
1 My son, if you receive my words,
And treasure my commands within you,
2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom,
And apply your heart to understanding;
3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD,
And find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice,
Equity and every good path.
10 When wisdom enters your heart,
And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you;
Understanding will keep you,
12 To deliver you from the way of evil,
From the man who speaks perverse things,
13 From those who leave the paths of uprightness
To walk in the ways of darkness;
14 Who rejoice in doing evil,
And delight in the perversity of the wicked;
15 Whose ways are crooked,
And who are devious in their paths;
16 To deliver you from the immoral woman,
From the seductress who flatters with her words,
17 Who forsakes the companion of her youth,
And forgets the covenant of her God.
18 For her house leads down to death,
And her paths to the dead;
19 None who go to her return,
Nor do they regain the paths of life—
20 So you may walk in the way of goodness,
And keep to the paths of righteousness.

Psalm 81:
10 I am the LORD your God,
Who brought you out of the land of Egypt;
Open your mouth wide, and I will fill it.

11 “But My people would not heed My voice,
And Israel would have none of Me.
12 So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart,
To walk in their own counsels.

The Eucharist: Perpetual or Repeated Sacrifice? Or Does it Matter?

Following is an exchange on the 'Visits to Candyland' blog which is likely to be deleted because it's on the wrong thread, and Elena doesn't like comments that aren't on subject. It's between myself and Barbara C. The part in italics is her comment.

To Barbara C.,
You said:
Kelly wrote: I assume that as we're now debating whether or not perpetual sacrifice is Biblical, you concede that the Catholic Church does not teach a "re-sacrifice" of Christ.

Jennie responded: I'm not sure that it really matters; either one is unbiblical.

The thing is that it REALLY does matter that you understand the difference. It’s the difference between having a legitimate grievance with someone instead of one based on a lie. As a matter of respect, all we have asked is that you attempt to understand Church teachings correctly even if you disagree with them and that you not attack based on untruths and misunderstandings and continue to pass on such things to others. In fact that is the whole purpose of this blog.

I responded:
You didn't include my entire statement. I also said something like: the Church may teach that the sacrifice is perpetual, but it also teaches that the eucharist really IS Christ's body and blood, so if it really is His body and blood, and it really is a sacrifice, then it IS a re-sacrifice of Christ, whatever you want to call it. So the Church wants to have it both ways: a real sacrifice of Christ but perpetual, not repeated. It isn't possible. So the lie isn't by those outside the Church who call it a repeated sacrifice; the lie is by the Church that calls it both perpetual AND physical, yet tries to say it isn't a repetition. Biblically the sacrifice is NEITHER perpetual NOR repeated, but IS a physical ONE TIME sacrifice ON THE CROSS. It's over; yet it is effective forever.

Justification by Faith apart from Works

John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

The Three Legged Stool Falls Over

The Roman Catholic Church's description of authority, called the 'three legged stool', is an attempt to place man on an equal footing with God: God's word, the magisterium, and tradition are said to be equal.
However, the Bible says Jesus is the cornerstone upon which the church is built, then the apostles and prophets are laid as stones upon Him, then the people that hear the Word from them and are saved come next, and so on.
The Triune God Himself is the 'three legged stool', or else the whole structure is built upon the sand. 1 John 5:7 says there are three that bear witness in heaven; the Father, the Word, and the Spirit and these three are one...There are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and these three agree as one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

In 1 Cor. 3 and 4 Paul talks about the foundation again, which Jesus mentions in Matthew 16:17-19 also, and which has generated so much controversy. Paul says again that Jesus is the foundation and that those who plant and water are nothing, but it is God who gives the increase: God who IS the foundation and God who adds to the building through each worker.
If one is not built on the foundation of Christ, then they are built on sinking sand instead of the Rock. The RCC claims that the three legged stool makes the church strong, yet Paul in 1 Corinthians 4 says: 6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. 7 For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?
Paul is saying that the written word is the final authority because it is God who gives it.
Remember back in 1 John 5:9 where it says: 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
This is saying that the witness of God (three in one) is greater than the witness of man, and that he who believes in the Son has the witness in himself; he who does NOT believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that GOD has given of His Son, that God has given us eternal life, and that life is in His Son.
So the witness is by God Himself, and the testimony is given by God Himself and He has shown this in heaven by Himself, and on earth by Himself: the Spirit, the water, and the blood. No three legged stool propped up by a magisterium and man's tradition is needed. We believe in the Word, receive the Spirit, obey the Father: we are washed in the blood, by the Spirit, and receive the living water. We receive this witness of God Himself within ourselves; we don't need the witness of man's authority. We hear His voice by the Word and the Spirit and believe, and we receive the Spirit in ourselves as our witness. We then follow Christ in water baptism because we are covered already in His blood, by His Spirit, who washes us with the water of regeneration.
The 1 John passage also says 'that you may know that you have eternal life'. We don't need a magisterium or oral tradition to help us be saved or know we are saved (the magisterium and tradition tell us we can't know and can't be saved outside of them) but only God, His Spirit, and His Word are needed.

In effect the three legged stool is not three equal legs in practice. Scripture is subordinated to the magisterium and their tradition (interpretations and additions) because they say we can't know anything in scripture or in our lives without their interpretation.

The Word of God is our guide and lamp, and He interprets it for His sheep Himself, by His Spirit.

"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." (Psalm 119:105)

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night." (Psalm 1:1-2)

Here are some passages that show that God and His word are enough; we should fear Him alone:
Isaiah 8:11 For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 “ Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.
14 He will be as a sanctuary,
But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense
To both the houses of Israel,
As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble;
They shall fall and be broken,
Be snared and taken.”
16 Bind up the testimony,
Seal the law among my disciples.
17 And I will wait on the LORD,
Who hides His face from the house of Jacob;
And I will hope in Him.
18 Here am I and the children whom the LORD has given me!
We are for signs and wonders in Israel
From the LORD of hosts,
Who dwells in Mount Zion.

19 And when they say to you, “Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter,” should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living? 20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

John 20:30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 17: 1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas.

The Harlot: Part Five: Rahab saved by faith

Then he said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
Revelation 17:15-18

And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
Revelation 18:4-8

“Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!"
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore. The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore. For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”
Revelation 18:20-24

‘ Return, backsliding Israel,’ says the LORD;
‘ I will not cause My anger to fall on you.
For I am merciful,’ says the LORD;
‘ I will not remain angry forever.
13 Only acknowledge your iniquity,
That you have transgressed against the LORD your God,
And have scattered your charms
To alien deities under every green tree,
And you have not obeyed My voice,’ says the LORD.

14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. 15 And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.
17 “At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
Jeremiah 3:12-17

But Joshua had said to the two men who had spied out the country, “Go into the harlot’s house, and from there bring out the woman and all that she has, as you swore to her.” And the young men who had been spies went in and brought out Rahab, her father, her mother, her brothers, and all that she had. So they brought out all her relatives and left them outside the camp of Israel. But they burned the city and all that was in it with fire. Only the silver and gold, and the vessels of bronze and iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD. And Joshua spared Rahab the harlot, her father’s household, and all that she had. So she dwells in Israel to this day, because she hid the messengers whom Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.
Joshua 6:22-25

Rahab's Faith: A Sermon by Charles H. Spurgeon

"By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace."—Hebrews 11:31.

IN ALMOST every capital of Europe there are varieties of triumphal arches or columns, upon which are recorded the valiant deeds of the country's generals, its emperors, or its monarchs. You will find, in one case, the thousand battles of a Napoleon recorded, and in another, you find the victories of a Nelson pictured. It seems, therefore, but right, that faith, which is the mightiest of the mighty, should have a pillar raised to its honor, upon which its valiant deeds should be recorded. The apostle Paul undertook to raise the structure, and he erected a most magnificent pillar in the chapter before us. It recites the victories of faith. It begins with one triumph of faith, and then proceeds to others. We have, in one place, faith triumphing over death; Enoch entered not the gates of hades, but reached heaven by another road from that which is usual to men. We have faith, in another place, wresting with time; Noah, warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, wrestled with time, which placed his deluge a hundred and twenty years away; and yet, in the confidence of faith, he believed against all rational expectation, against all probability, and his faith was more than a match for probability and time too. We have faith triumphing over infirmity—Abraham begetteth a son in his old age. And then we have faith triumphing over natural affection, as we see Abraham climbing to the top of the hill and raising the knife to slay his only and beloved son at the command of God. We see faith, again, entering the lists with the infirmities of old age and the pains of the last struggle, as we read, "By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff." Then we have faith combating the allurements of a wealthy court. "By faith Moses esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt." We see faith dauntless in courage when Moses forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king, and equally patient in suffering when he endured as seeing him who is invisible. We have faith dividing seas, and casting down strong walls. And then, as though the greatest victory should be recorded last, we have faith entering the lists with sin, holding a tournament with iniquity, and coming off more than a conqueror. "Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace." That this woman was no mere hostess, but a real harlot, I have abundantly proved to every candid hearer while reading the chapter. I am persuaded that nothing but a spirit of distaste for free grace would ever have led any commentator to deny her sin.
I do think this triumph of faith over sin is not the least here recorded, but that if there be any superiority ascribable to any one of faith's exploits, this is, in some sense, the greatest of all. What! faith, didst thou fight with hideous lust? What! wouldst thou struggle with the fiery passion which sendeth forth flame from human breasts? What! wouldst thou touch with thy hallowed fingers foul and bestial debauchery? "Yea," says faith, "I did encounter this abomination of iniquity; I delivered this woman from the loathsome chambers of vice, the wily snares of enchantment, and the fearful penalty of transgression; yea, I brought her off saved and rescued, gave her purity of heart, and renewed in her the beauty of holiness; and now her name shall be recorded in the roll of my triumphs as a woman full of sin, yet saved by faith." (Please finish reading the sermon here.)

Video: Pope Prays in Mosque--from Understand the Times

Following is a video called 'Pope Prays in Mosque' that I found on the 'Understand the Times International' page on Youtube. This goes along with my earlier post 'The Pope's Push for a One-World Religion'.

"Catholic But Not Roman Catholic" series: Conclusion

Note: The following is the conclusion from a study by a Research Analyst for NTRMin named Jason Engwer, who has been posting a series on the NTRMin Discussion Board called "Catholic But Not Roman Catholic" which studies different theological areas taught by the Early Church Fathers and compares them to the teachings of Roman Catholicism. I found it very helpful so I'm posting parts of it so others can read it. I hope to post some of the body of the series as time goes on.

I began the Catholic, But Not Roman Catholic series one year ago, May 18, 2002. I'm concluding the series today (May 17, 2003) at 365 segments. In this conclusion, I want to summarize what's been documented and discuss the implications.

The series has addressed several dozen church fathers, churches, and church councils covering several hundred years of church history, from the first century to the eighth. (The father I cited most was Augustine, in 29 segments.) I addressed dozens of subjects, including foundational issues of authority and salvation and less significant issues of church discipline, for example. I quoted the most authoritative documents of Roman Catholicism to contrast with the teachings of the fathers. I cited many highly regarded Roman Catholic historians, theologians, and apologists, as well as credible non-Roman-Catholic scholarship.

We saw examples of the fathers rejecting the Roman Catholic view of church history. Hegesippus, Cyprian, and Dionysius of Alexandria, for example, referred to the fallibility of past generations and the need to go back to the original revelation of God rather than expecting an infallible succession of all apostolic teaching throughout church history.

We saw many examples of church fathers, churches, and councils, from the East and West, rejecting the Roman Catholic system of authority. We saw one father after another, generation after generation, commenting on the significance of the Roman church without saying anything of a papacy, even in the midst of giving reasons for the church's significance. We saw one father after another, along with regional and ecumenical councils, contradicting the doctrine of the papacy. We saw the fathers deciding what canon of scripture to accept without any infallible ruling from a church hierarchy. We saw widespread rejection of the Roman Catholic canon of scripture. We saw the rejection of the infallibility of ecumenical councils, rejection of the Roman Catholic definition of tradition, rejection of the Roman Catholic definition of apostolic succession, and rejection of the Roman Catholic definition of the church.

We saw a wide variety of views of salvation, contradicting Roman Catholicism from many different angles. We saw a Protestant view of justification in fathers like Clement of Rome and Mathetes. We saw fathers like Clement of Alexandria and Gregory of Nyssa advocating views we would associate with theological liberalism, such as post-death salvation and universalism. We saw widespread disagreements with Roman Catholicism on original sin, the salvation of infants, the atonement, whether and how salvation can be lost, etc. We saw widespread rejection of Roman Catholic ecumenism.

We saw a system of penance and church discipline that was much more public, much more severe than what we see in Roman Catholicism. We saw the fathers advocating standards of church discipline that are rejected by Roman Catholicism, including standards that would require the removal of many Roman bishops from office.

We saw widespread rejection of the Roman Catholic view of Mary. Fathers from the second century onward, from West and East, deny that she was sinless and even describe some of the sins she committed. Some of the fathers denied that she was a perpetual virgin. Epiphanius denies that anybody has received any tradition concerning the end of Mary's life, which excludes the possibility of an apostolic tradition of a bodily assumption. We've also seen some of the fathers deny the mediatorial role assigned to Mary in Roman Catholicism.

We saw widespread rejection of Purgatory among the earliest fathers. Irenaeus and Hippolytus, for example, referred to all deceased believers being in a heavenly region of Hades without the suffering associated with Purgatory. Even when some elements of Purgatory are advocated by some of the fathers, other elements of the doctrine are still rejected and other fathers continue to advocate something more along the lines of Irenaeus and Hippolytus.

We've seen that premillennialism was the popular eschatology among the earliest fathers, even though Roman Catholicism rejects and condemns premillennialism. Even the fathers who weren't premillennialists contradicted Roman Catholic eschatology in other ways.

We saw some fathers rejecting any physical presence of Christ in the eucharist or advocating a physical presence that they defined in a way that contradicts transubstantiation. We saw some examples of fathers rejecting the Roman Catholic definition of the sacrificial nature of the eucharist. We saw widespread rejection of the veneration of images, and we saw the fathers advocating traditions about baptism and the eucharist that Roman Catholicism rejects. We've seen rejection of prayers to the dead among the earliest fathers.

We saw Roman bishops and church fathers living in Rome rejecting the Roman Catholic view of the Trinity, justification, the canon of scripture, the eucharist, Mary, etc. One wonders how the bishops and church fathers of Rome could not only have not known of the apostolic traditions of Roman Catholicism, but even contradicted them. If the traditions weren't being handed down in Rome, then where were they being handed down, and what does that tell us about the reliability of Rome?

We saw examples of the fathers accepting Roman Catholic doctrine for reasons other than what Roman Catholicism claims. Irenaeus, for example, believed in a form of Roman primacy, but for non-papal reasons. Basil accepts the perpetual virginity of Mary, but he also says that many Christians reject the doctrine and that rejecting it is acceptable within orthodox Christianity. Augustine advocates something like Purgatory, but as an unproven speculation, not as an apostolic tradition always held by the Christian church.

We've seen the fathers advocate a much higher view of the sufficiency and perspicuity of scripture than we see in Roman Catholicism. We've seen them reject popular Roman Catholic interpretations of many passages of scripture.

We saw disagreements with Roman Catholicism on moral issues, such as when life begins, marriage, divorce, overpopulation, and the definition of murder.

We've seen that contradictions of Roman Catholicism aren't found only in a single father here or there or in a minority of fathers, but often among a majority of fathers, even universally. The conservative Roman Catholic theologian Ludwig Ott refers to the rejection of the veneration of images among the ante-Nicene fathers as a whole. Augustine describes the belief that Jesus was the only immaculately conceived human as the view of the universal church of his day. When the Council of Chalcedon passed its 28th canon despite the objections of the bishop of Rome, that ecumenical council didn't represent just one or two bishops. And when the ecumenical Second Council of Constantinople claimed authority over the bishop of Rome and excommunicated him, and multiple churches in the West also broke ties with the Roman church and its bishop, such actions don't just reflect the beliefs of one father or a small minority.

Even when the disagreements with Roman Catholicism are a minority view among the fathers, how does a Roman Catholic explain the beliefs of that minority? How does a Roman Catholic explain Ambrose's belief that original sin is removed by means of foot washing or Gregory of Nyssa's belief in universal salvation? Were those fathers Roman Catholic, but they chose to reject apostolic tradition on the issues in question? If so, why should they be considered faithful Catholics? Or were they not Roman Catholic, whereas other fathers were? If only some of the fathers were Roman Catholic, then which ones? Will we ever be given a list? If some of the fathers weren't Roman Catholic, then what is the universal church to which those fathers claimed to belong? If it wasn't the Roman Catholic denomination, then what was it?

I've given a few hundred examples of the fathers contradicting Roman Catholicism, and surely thousands more could be given. Development of doctrine is no explanation. Oak trees don't grow from apple seeds. A patristic belief in the limited jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome doesn't inevitably grow into a belief in the universal jurisdiction of the bishop of Rome. The patristic belief that Mary was a sinner doesn't inevitably grow into the belief that she was sinless. A patristic rejection of the veneration of images doesn't inevitably grow into an acceptance of the veneration of images. If logically unconnected and contradictory ideas are to be associated with one another under the banner of doctrinal development, then anything can be said to have developed from anything else. And anything that can prove everything proves nothing. If our beliefs can be logically unconnected to those of the fathers, even contradicting the beliefs of the fathers, yet still be considered patristic, then any and every professing Christian group in existence can claim to be patristic.

The claim is often made that to be deep into history is to cease being Protestant, as if Roman Catholicism is the alternative. But Roman Catholics aren't deep into history. They're deep into philosophical speculations based on personal preferences. Wishing for a Divine institution with the attributes the Roman Catholic Church claims for itself isn't equivalent to proving its existence. A wish isn't a proof. If the church fathers rejected Roman Catholicism's view of church history, its system of authority, its view of salvation, its view of the afterlife, its worship, its view of prayer, its morality, its eschatology, its view of Mary, its penitential system, its disciplinary standards, its ecumenism, and so many of its scripture interpretations, even in the city of Rome itself, what are we to think of the claim that the fathers were Roman Catholic? It's an attempt to derive an oak tree from an apple seed. The Roman Catholic Church isn't the church of the fathers. The change isn't a development. It's a long series of contradictions.

"The final authority [for Roman Catholics] is the living Magisterium, which, a priori, stands above criticism. Words, documents, and entire epochs of Church history have suffered the death of a thousand qualifications, and Rome still remains; ever-changing, ever the same. But what about the Protestant evangelical who, without a Magisterium, contemplates the path taken by his Roman Catholic counterpart?" (John Montgomery, God's Inerrant Word [Minneapolis, Minnesota: Bethany House, 1974], p. 275).

The Pope's Push for a One-World Religion by Mike Gendron

I found another good article by Mike Gendron (see the post below called 'Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood') called 'The Pope's Push for a One-World Religion' in which Gendron warns about the Vatican's strategy to unite all Christendom under papal control and goes on further to warn that the Vatican doesn't stop at trying to unite Christendom but is working to 'bring ALL religions under the power and influence of the papacy.' Here are two excerpts from the article, but please read the entire article at the link above.

The Vatican’s Strategy

It is indeed disturbing to see so many evangelicals unaware of the Vatican’s strategy for bringing the world under the dominion of the papacy. The Vatican has made a concerted effort since 1965 to bring their "separated brothers’ back home to "holy mother the church." In his 1995 encyclical Et Unum Sint, Pope John Paul II said he intends "to promote every suitable initiative...to increase the unity of all Christians until they reach full communion" and "to encourage the efforts of all who work for the cause of unity." The pope’s stated desire is "to gather all people and all things into Christ, so as to be for all—an inseparable sacrament of unity... expressed in the common celebration of the Eucharist." During a week of prayer for Christian unity Pope John Paul II said, "I gladly take this opportunity to call the attention of all believers to the ecumenical commitment that marked VC II. The council rightly defined the division among Christians as a scandal. The council Fathers felt the need to beg pardon of God and of their brethren for the sins committed against unity." He asked Catholics "to cultivate an authentic spiritual ecumenism" through the Virgin Mary [not through the Lord Jesus]. The success of the pope’s push for unity can be seen by the announcement made last year by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He urged all Christians to recognize the Pope as the supreme authority of a new global church (6/99 CRN News). In a document called The Gift of Authority, he describes the Pope as a "gift to be received by all the churches." It would do us all well to heed the words of C.H. Spurgeon, "Ignorance has been one of the grand agents of Popery ever since her establishment; by it, the eyes of men have been so blinded that they can scarcely discern between good and evil, and follow implicitly any guide even until they fall into the ditch of perdition."

The Vatican’s ecumenical movement goes beyond the unity of all professing Christians. Their strategy is to bring all religions under the power and influence of the papacy. Pope John Paul II has been traveling the world to build bridges to all non-Christian religions. In a recent speech he said, "Christians and Muslims, we meet one another in faith in the one God...and strive to put into practice...the teaching of our respective holy books. Today, dialogue between our two religions [Roman Catholicism and Islam] is more necessary than ever. There remains a spiritual bond which unites us and which we must strive to recognize and develop." Even Mother Theresa had the ecumenical spirit as noted from her book Servants of Love. She stated, "we went every day to pray in some temple or church. The Archbishop gave us permission to do so. We prayed with the Jews, the Armenians, the Anglicans, the Jains, the Sikhs, the Buddhists, and the Hindus. It was extraordinary. All hearts united in prayer to the one true God."

Notice the statement "He asked Catholics "to cultivate an authentic spiritual ecumenism" through the Virgin Mary [not through the Lord Jesus]." This is obviously an older article because it speaks of JP2 as the present pope, but Pope Benedict XVI apparently is continuing on similar course. The fact that the 'Virgin Mary' is to be the uniting spirit of this movement is significant. People of many religions revere the Mary of Roman Catholicism and have been seeing Marian apparitions that teach them to honor her and build churches for her and that she will bring peace to the world, etc. This is a lying spirit because, if one reads the things it has said, it does not give glory to God alone and does not speak according to what is taught in the Bible, God's inspired word.
Notice also the statement 'In a document called The Gift of Authority, he describes the Pope as a "gift to be received by all the churches."' We would do well to remember that the Trojan Horse was also a gift.
In a related article, the new pope has recently made a bold move to extend papal authority over Anglican Christians.

Passages from our pastor's sermon today

Our pastor, Sam Hyde, preached a sermon this morning in his continuing series on Matthew. Today he taught on Matthew 9:18-34 and some related passages. The theme was "Jesus' Perfect Power" with subheadings on Jesus' power over death, sickness, blindness, and deafness. An important sub-theme is each person's recognition of their need of Him, their recognition of His identity as God and savior, and their resultant faith that reached out to Him and received His ever-present and accessible help. Contrasted with these are the ones who did not believe in Him and ridiculed or blasphemed Him. Following are the major passages used in the sermon.

Matthew 9:18-34
A Girl Restored to Life and a Woman Healed

18 While He spoke these things to them, behold, a ruler came and worshiped Him, saying, “My daughter has just died, but come and lay Your hand on her and she will live.” 19 So Jesus arose and followed him, and so did His disciples.
20 And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. 21 For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” 22 But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour.
23 When Jesus came into the ruler’s house, and saw the flute players and the noisy crowd wailing, 24 He said to them, “Make room, for the girl is not dead, but sleeping.” And they ridiculed Him. 25 But when the crowd was put outside, He went in and took her by the hand, and the girl arose. 26 And the report of this went out into all that land.
Two Blind Men Healed

27 When Jesus departed from there, two blind men followed Him, crying out and saying, “Son of David, have mercy on us!”
28 And when He had come into the house, the blind men came to Him. And Jesus said to them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?”
They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.”
29 Then He touched their eyes, saying, “According to your faith let it be to you.” 30 And their eyes were opened. And Jesus sternly warned them, saying, “See that no one knows it. ” 31 But when they had departed, they spread the news about Him in all that country.
A Mute Man Speaks

32 As they went out, behold, they brought to Him a man, mute and demon-possessed. 33 And when the demon was cast out, the mute spoke. And the multitudes marveled, saying, “It was never seen like this in Israel!”
34 But the Pharisees said, “He casts out demons by the ruler of the demons.”

Ephesians 2:1-10 (Note: We have been raised from the dead as the young girl was)
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:12-21 (Note: We are new creations; all things are now of God; we are ambassabors of Christ, as though God Himself were pleading through us)
12 For we do not commend ourselves again to you, but give you opportunity to boast on our behalf, that you may have an answer for those who boast in appearance and not in heart. 13 For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; or if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Romans 6:1-11 (Note: We are dead to sin and alive to God; death no longer has dominion; FEAR GOD AND NOTHING ELSE)
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The Harlot: Part Four: By Faith Rahab Hid the Spies

Hebrews 11:30-31 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.

John 16:1-4 “These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them."

Joshua 2
Rahab Hides the Spies
1 Now Joshua the son of Nun sent out two men from Acacia Grove to spy secretly, saying, “Go, view the land, especially Jericho.”
So they went, and came to the house of a harlot named Rahab, and lodged there. 2 And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, “Behold, men have come here tonight from the children of Israel to search out the country.”
3 So the king of Jericho sent to Rahab, saying, “Bring out the men who have come to you, who have entered your house, for they have come to search out all the country.”
4 Then the woman took the two men and hid them. So she said, “Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they were from. 5 And it happened as the gate was being shut, when it was dark, that the men went out. Where the men went I do not know; pursue them quickly, for you may overtake them.” 6 (But she had brought them up to the roof and hidden them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order on the roof.) 7 Then the men pursued them by the road to the Jordan, to the fords. And as soon as those who pursued them had gone out, they shut the gate.
8 Now before they lay down, she came up to them on the roof, 9 and said to the men: “I know that the LORD has given you the land, that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land are fainthearted because of you. 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were on the other side of the Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11 And as soon as we heard these things, our hearts melted; neither did there remain any more courage in anyone because of you, for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath. 12 Now therefore, I beg you, swear to me by the LORD, since I have shown you kindness, that you also will show kindness to my father’s house, and give me a true token, 13 and spare my father, my mother, my brothers, my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death.”
14 So the men answered her, “Our lives for yours, if none of you tell this business of ours. And it shall be, when the LORD has given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with you.”
15 Then she let them down by a rope through the window, for her house was on the city wall; she dwelt on the wall. 16 And she said to them, “Get to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you. Hide there three days, until the pursuers have returned. Afterward you may go your way.”
17 So the men said to her: “We will be blameless of this oath of yours which you have made us swear, 18 unless, when we come into the land, you bind this line of scarlet cord in the window through which you let us down, and unless you bring your father, your mother, your brothers, and all your father’s household to your own home. 19 So it shall be that whoever goes outside the doors of your house into the street, his blood shall be on his own head, and we will be guiltless. And whoever is with you in the house, his blood shall be on our head if a hand is laid on him. 20 And if you tell this business of ours, then we will be free from your oath which you made us swear.”
21 Then she said, “According to your words, so be it.” And she sent them away, and they departed. And she bound the scarlet cord in the window.
22 They departed and went to the mountain, and stayed there three days until the pursuers returned. The pursuers sought them all along the way, but did not find them. 23 So the two men returned, descended from the mountain, and crossed over; and they came to Joshua the son of Nun, and told him all that had befallen them. 24 And they said to Joshua, “Truly the LORD has delivered all the land into our hands, for indeed all the inhabitants of the country are fainthearted because of us.”


Matthew 25
The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”



Joshua 6

20 So the people shouted when the priests blew the trumpets. And it happened when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat. Then the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. 21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword.
22 But Joshua had said to the two men who had spied out the country, “Go into the harlot’s house, and from there bring out the woman and all that she has, as you swore to her.” 23 And the young men who had been spies went in and brought out Rahab, her father, her mother, her brothers, and all that she had. So they brought out all her relatives and left them outside the camp of Israel. 24 But they burned the city and all that was in it with fire. Only the silver and gold, and the vessels of bronze and iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD. 25 And Joshua spared Rahab the harlot, her father’s household, and all that she had. So she dwells in Israel to this day, because she hid the messengers whom Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.
26 Then Joshua charged them at that time, saying, “Cursed be the man before the LORD who rises up and builds this city Jericho; he shall lay its foundation with his firstborn, and with his youngest he shall set up its gates.”

"Catholic But Not Roman Catholic" series: Introduction

Note: The following is the introduction from a study by a Research Analyst for NTRMin named Jason Engwer, who posted a series on the NTRMin Discussion Board called "Catholic But Not Roman Catholic" which studies different theological areas taught by the Early Church Fathers and compares them to the teachings of Roman Catholicism. I found it very helpful so I'm posting parts of it so others can read it.

Catholic But Not Roman Catholic: Introduction
Evangelicals and Catholics have radically different views of church history. Evangelicals believe that a revelation was given to us by God through the apostles, and that each generation since that time is responsible for following that revelation. Some people are more faithful than others in doing so. We view the church fathers as people who taught a combination of truth and error that doesn't completely align with any modern belief system. The evangelical view of church history is similar to what we read about in 2 Kings 22:8-13, where the original revelation is what must be followed, even if our forefathers failed to do so. Catholics, on the other hand, believe that there's been one worldwide denomination centered in Rome since the time of the apostles. They believe that the church fathers were members of that denomination, and that all of the teachings of the apostles were passed on in an unbroken succession.

I've decided to begin a new series of posts titled "Catholic, But Not Roman Catholic". What I want to do is post, daily, a quote of a church father contradicting Roman Catholic teaching or disagreeing with a popular argument used by Roman Catholic apologists. Sometimes I'll include some explanatory comments with the quote, if I think it's appropriate, and other times I won't. I may miss a day here or there because of being sick, being away from home, etc., but I'll try to post a quote every day. If anybody has any ideas for a quote, or wants to send me a quote, you can e-mail me at jengwer@ntrmin.org. When I include a quote somebody else has sent me, I'll give that person credit for it. You can also e-mail me, or post a response here, if you have any reasonable objections to the quote I've posted. I would expect the large majority of the quotes to be clear examples of the church fathers contradicting modern Roman Catholic beliefs. But I'm fallible, and even when I'm not wrong! to include a quote, I may still be unclear about why I included it. I'm willing to consider any reasonable criticisms. Let me give an example.

Let's say that I post a quote of a church father referring to Mary as a sinner. Here are some examples of unreasonable objections:

Quoting some other church father referring to Mary as sinless. Evangelicals believe that the church fathers held a wide variety of beliefs, so we don't expect as much consistency as the Catholic view of church history would require. Catholics believe that there was one worldwide denomination that taught the same things the apostles taught in an unbroken succession. If church father A denied that Mary was sinless, while church father B said that she was sinless, that's supportive of the evangelical view of church history, not the Roman Catholic view. Quoting what some other church father said isn't enough to validate the Roman Catholic view of church history.
Quoting the church father saying elsewhere that Mary is a Second Eve. You can view Mary as a Second Eve and a sinner at the same time. Just because modern Roman Catholics view the Second Eve concept as involving sinlessness, that doesn't mean the church father in question did.
Claiming that the church fathers were allowed to disagree with modern Catholic teaching at that time, since no infallible ruling had been made on the issue yet. By that reasoning, we would conclude that Christians could believe anything during the first 300 years of church history, since there was no infallible papal decree or ecumenical council during that time. If apostolic teaching was being passed down in an unbroken succession, there isn't any reason to expect any bishop, much less a large number of bishops, to be ignorant of it, regardless of whether any allegedly infallible ruling had been passed on the subject. Saying that people had freedom to disagree with the RCC at that time doesn't change the fact that the doctrine is being contradicted, and that it should have been known across the Christian world if it was one of the apostolic teachings being passed down in the presence of many witnesses (2 Timothy 2:2).
So, if any Catholic wants to object to my quotes, I'm going to expect the objection to be reasonable. If I quote John Chrysostom referring to Mary as a sinner, I don't consider it reasonable for a Catholic to respond by saying, "Here's what Augustine said...", "Here's John Chrysostom referring to Mary as a Second Eve...", "John Chrysostom was allowed to disagree with the doctrine at that time, since no infallible ruling had been passed yet...", etc. If the RCC is going to claim to be fulfilling 2 Timothy 2:2 in an unbroken succession, and Pope Pius IX is going to claim that the sinlessness of Mary was always taught and believed by the Christian church, then Catholic objections to a quote from John Chrysostom aren't valid if they're like the objections I've described above.

In closing, I want to explain some of the reasons why I'm calling this series "Catholic, But Not Roman Catholic":

I often see Catholics quoting somebody like Ignatius using the word "catholic", as though the term can only mean "Roman Catholic". Obviously, "catholic" and "Roman Catholic" aren't equivalent. Just as people like Chuck Colson and Hank Hanegraaff will refer to "the church" believing such and such or how "the church" should do something, that sort of terminology was also used by the church fathers. To quote somebody like Cyprian or Athanasius referring to "the church", then assume that he must have believed in a worldwide denomination centered in Rome, is about as reasonable as doing the same thing with somebody like Chuck Colson or Hank Hanegraaff. People can refer to "the church", "the catholic church", "the authority of the church", etc. without being a Roman Catholic.
Just as the church fathers could disagree with the RCC and with each other on many issues, yet still call themselves and each other "catholic" and part of the "catholic church", evangelicals can do the same.

Tony Bartolucci: Drowning in the Tiber--Part 12 is finally here!

Part 12 in Pastor Tony Bartolucci's series 'Drowning in the Tiber' is available for listening. It is the final installment of the series and is called 'The Reformation, Theology, and the Theology of the Reformation.' I'm looking forward to listening to it. Then I need to go back and listen to the whole series again to review it.

'Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood' by Evangelist Mike Gendron

Here is an article by evangelist Mike Gendron about the Roman Catholic interpretation of John 6, which teaches that Jesus was talking about transubstantiation when He said “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." Gendron gives 'seven convincing biblical reasons why this passage is to be taken figuratively.'

Discussion on Apostolic succession at Visits to Candyland blog

There's an interesting discussion going on over at Visits to Candyland.