Prayer Challenge

Over on Visits to Candyland, Leo, who is Catholic, has challenged the other Catholics there to pray a novena of Hail Marys 'for my conversion' in hopes that I will convert to Catholicism. Here is his challenge:

Elena, I have a challenge and a request for you, Christine and John. This thought came to me last week and again at Mass this morning and so I offer it to you.

Would you each be willing to join me in a simple 9 day novena? Let's say one simple Hail Mary each day for 9 consecutive days for the sake of Jennie's conversion. This would put the whole thing in our Blessed Mother's hands and give the Holy Spirit the opportunity to witness to the role of His spouse. It would also witness to the effect of even one simple Hail Mary prayer. Are you game?

I didn't know how or if I should respond to this, so I prayed about it for a while. The first thing that came to mind was Elijah and the prophets of Baal in 1 Kings 18, especially the passage which says "Then you call on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD; and the God who answers by fire, He is God." After praying and thinking some more, and talking to my husband about it, I decided I shouldn't challenge them to pray to Mary while I pray to God, since I don't want to encourage people to do that. Also Elijah didn't ask the Israelite people to pray to Baal, but only to watch while the prophets called on Baal. I finally decided to challenge them to pray to the Father about whom they should pray to in heaven, while reading scriptures about prayer, and to be willing to submit to whatever the Father shows them in His word. Leo accepted my challenge, though he said he will do the novena to Mary as well. I don't know if the others are accepting my challenge, though 2 have accepted Leo's.

Here is my challenge:
Leo,
I've been praying about what you've said here, and if I should say anything about it. I'm asking that you don't pray to Mary for me, not because I think it will hurt or affect me, but for your own sake and the others. If you want to pray for me, please pray to the Father in heaven.
I would like to request instead of your challenge, that you accept mine. I will pray to the Father that He would open your eyes to see that He is the only one in heaven that we should pray to, as Jesus taught us to pray. I ask that you would pray the same thing, that the Father would show you whom you should pray to in heaven, and that you will be willing to submit to Him in whatever He shows you in His word. Would you accept this challenge, to pray this for 9 days in faith that God will give wisdom?

And here's another note I added later after praying and thinking about this some more:
Leo, our hearts can deceive us, so I'm asking that we search God's word about prayer as we pray, and ask that God would open our eyes by the Holy Spirit's guidance through His word. I'm going to do a search on prayer and pray and praying, etc.
So we're praying that the Father would show us whom we should pray to in heaven, and that we will submit to whatever He shows us in His word.
By the way, last night I remembered the passage that says our hearts can deceive us, and added three words to my request: 'in His word'.
Jeremiah 17:
9 “ The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?

I'm going to post some of the passages I find as I search the scriptures about prayer. If nothing else, I'll learn some more good things about prayer. I hope everyone does.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: In a discussion at Called to Communion

Here's a post by John Bugay that links to a discussion at 'Called to Communion' about some new scholarship on the structure of the early church at Rome.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: In a discussion at Called to Communion

Revised: Here's a discussion at VTC on whether I'm nutty

http://mdcalexatestblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/cue-theme-from-x-files-here.html

Thoughts of Francis Turretin: How Many Popes Does it Take to Deny the Immaculate Conception?

ANOTHER UPDATE: I'm opening comments here now, since everybody seems to be scared of TurretinFan and won't go over there. But please read all the links here if you want to comment.

Thoughts of Francis Turretin: How Many Popes Does it Take to Deny the Immaculate Conception?

I'm going to try something new, since I'm not a patristic scholar. If anyone wants to comment, please do so over at TurretinFan's blog. I may open comments here later on.

UPDATE: Here are two more articles which Jason Engwer linked to in the comments of TurretinFan's post on the debate on the Immaculate Conception:
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006/09/some-early-sources-on-sinlessness-of.html
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006/09/some-later-sources-on-sinlessness-of.html

Revelation Song -Philips Craig and Dean- (with lyrics)

This is another beautiful song of worship to Jesus.

No Other Name: Unhindered

We sang this song in church this Sunday. It's a beautiful song praising Jesus, who is Emmanuel which means 'God with us'. God's name is the only one worthy of praise.

Thoughts of Francis Turretin: The White-Ferrara Marian Debate - Some Follow-Up

More from TurretinFan on the Immaculate Conception.

Thoughts of Francis Turretin: The White-Ferrara Marian Debate - Some Follow-Up

In the post TurretinFan links to 'Ineffibilis Deus' which is the document which declares the Immaculate Conception to be official Church Dogma. Here is a quote from it that shows the purpose of the doctrine and the spirit of it, which is offensive beyond words:
All our hope do we repose in the most Blessed Virgin -- in the all fair and immaculate one who has crushed the poisonous head of the most cruel serpent and brought salvation to the world: in her who is the glory of the prophets and apostles, the honor of the martyrs, the crown and joy of all the saints; in her who is the safest refuge and the most trustworthy helper of all who are in danger; in her who, with her only-begotten Son, is the most powerful Mediatrix and Conciliatrix in the whole world; in her who is the most excellent glory, ornament, and impregnable stronghold of the holy Church; in her who has destroyed all heresies and snatched the faithful people and nations from all kinds of direst calamities; in her do we hope who has delivered us from so many threatening dangers. We have, therefore, a very certain hope and complete confidence that the most Blessed Virgin will ensure by her most powerful patronage that all difficulties be removed and all errors dissipated, so that our Holy Mother the Catholic Church may flourish daily more and more throughout all the nations and countries, and may reign "from sea to sea and from the river to the ends of the earth," and may enjoy genuine peace, tranquility and liberty. We are firm in our confidence that she will obtain pardon for the sinner, health for the sick, strength of heart for the weak, consolation for the afflicted, help for those in danger; that she will remove spiritual blindness from all who are in error, so that they may return to the path of truth and justice, and that here may be one flock and one shepherd.

All these things ascribed to Mary are things that only God Himself does, and our hope and praise should go to Him alone. Christ is the one who crushed the head of the serpent. This is why I am offended and continue to feel the need to expose the spirit behind this doctrine.

I posted this whole chapter a few days ago and bolded this passage, hoping it might strike a chord: 1 Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
We believe in God the Father through Christ alone, and our faith and hope are in Him.

1 Peter 1: "For you who through Him believe in God"

1 Peter 1

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 24 because


“ All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
25 But the word of the LORD endures forever.”



Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.

Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Was Mary Sinless?

Today TurretinFan posted this link to a friend's post about the immaculate conception. I can't help it, I have to link to it. Jesus is the only one who is sinless, and Mary stands for all of us who fall yet are redeemed by His blood.

Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Was Mary Sinless?

Concordat Watch

Concordat Watch is a website dedicated to exposing the truth about agreements, called concordats, made between the Catholic Church and the governments of countries.
Here is one web page on the website that shows how the innocent are trampled in the Roman Catholic Church's quest for power and money. The article begins:

The Polish Government can afford to subsidise Church influence in every corner of society, from chaplains throughout the civil service to holiday pay for the monks and nuns who teach religion in state schools. Yet it is unable to provide free school lunches for Polish children, a quarter of whom are malnourished. This is an itemised list of state subventions to the Church for 2008.

Here is a FAQ page that gives some basic questions and answers about concordats. Following is one quote from the page about what a concordat is:

It's a commitment to give the Church certain legal and financial privileges forever, unless the Church agrees to relinquish them. You can change a law if enough representatives vote to do so, but you cannot change a concordat without agreement from the Vatican, because it is classed as an international treaty. Once in place, therefore, concordats are removed from democratic control.

The basic premise of the website is that these 'concordats', which are sometimes called by other names to disguise what they are, are a danger to the civil rights of the citizens of the countries where they are enacted. Concordat Watch calls for true separation of church and state. I want to clarify that there is a true concept of separation, which our founding fathers endorsed; and there is a false concept of separation which today's liberals call for. The false concept is that there can be now mention, symbol, prayer, etc. of Christianity in or related to any state-run property or organization. They don't seem to care if other religions are represented; only Christianity, especially Biblical Christianity, is abhorred.
The true concept of separation of church and state is that the state shall make no law that inhibits the free practice of religion, and that no church shall control the government and so inhibit the civil rights and free practice of religion for the citizens. Thus, there is a wall of separation between church and state, but not so that no mention of God is allowed on state property, for example.

Here is another section from the FAQS page about how the concordat effects the citizens:
What powers are conferred on the Vatican and what liberties do citizens of concordat nations sacrifice, if any?

It varies from country to country, because concordats demand whatever the Vatican thinks the market will bear. Current concordats in countries like Poland and the Dominican Republic forbid anyone married in a Catholic Church to ever sue for a civil divorce. The Polish concordat phrases it with great delicacy (1993, Article 10.2), calling for the state to put in place the enabling legislation which would enforce "concordat marriage". But the Dominican one (1954, Article 15.2) is franker: "by virtue of contracting Catholic marriage, spouses renounce the possibility of divorce, which shall not be applicable to these Canon marriages". Here we see how a concordat can deny some citizens their rights under civil law in a direct fashion.

Generally, however, this is done in a more roundabout way. The concordat grants taxpayers’ money to Catholic social services (for example in Germany Catholic hospitals are funded to 98.2% by the state) yet it also stipulates that Church institutions are to be run according to Canon (Church) Law, and not civil law. This means that if you work at a Catholic school, hospital, care home, etc., you can be fired for changing your religion, being gay, living with a partner, or even remarrying. Thus you can be denied your rights under civil law indirectly, that is, if you want to retain your job.

Furthermore, with such generous state subsidies there are many places in, for example, Germany, where Catholic social services are the major or even sole employer in some field. This can result in people feeling they must go to church and even force their families to attend, in order to have a chance to get a job. It’s this unofficial erosion of liberty which is the most worrying thing. No concordat is going to come right out and say: “You must give money to the Church if you want to make sure that someday your handicapped child gets a place in a Church-run (yet state-subsidised) sheltered workshop.” But the concordat sets things up so that this can happen.

My conclusion:
Is the church meant to be a political state that makes agreements that enable it to entwine itself into the workings of governments in order to gain power over the citizens and money for its own purposes, to the detriment of the weakest members of society? OR is the church meant to be the body of Christ that appears in local bodies all over the world and which live to love God, love each other, love their neighbors, and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to obey the commands of Christ; not by compulsion and power of a hierarchy, but by the word of God worked out in love by each member.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: The Phony Decree of Damasus or Gelasius

Here's another example of why I don't trust the hierarchy of the RCC. I can never tell if what Catholics are quoting from is a genuine document. They may sincerely believe it is, but I can't trust the source.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: The Phony Decree of Damasus or Gelasius

Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Peter Abelard on the Inerrancy of Scripture in Contradistinction to the Errancy of the Fathers

Interesting post quoted from Peter Abelard (1079-1142). He talks about love being of first importance, which we 'Church of Ephesus' Christians (see Revelation 2) need to remember, and which we discussed very briefly in the comments under my recent post about 'the successors of Peter.'

Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Peter Abelard on the Inerrancy of Scripture in Contradistinction to the Errancy of the Fathers

The Christianity of Thomas Jefferson: Britt Mooney

Here's a good post by Britt Mooney about Thomas Jefferson's Christianity. Apparently there is alot of misinformation about Jefferson out there, because I thought he was a deist who didn't believe in the miracles of Christ. From the quotes Britt gives it appears Jefferson was a true Christian, and also one who didn't accept the institutional Christianity of his day. Some of what he describes as things added to Christ's pure doctrines sounds alot like Roman Catholicism, and probably also applied to the Church of England as well. This is very exciting to me, and I would like to read the book that Britt mentions to find out more about Jefferson.

"The Pilgrim Church' by E.H. Broadbent is available to read online

The book 'The Pilgrim Church' by E.H. Broadbent, which I have posted about before, is now available to read or download online here. Just look under the letter 'B' until you find 'Broadbent' and then download or read whichever copy you wish.
Now, Kelly of Visits to Candyland can read it and not wait for me to mail her the book, since I still haven't finished the hardback copy I have. I don't know why but I have trouble reading 'real' books now and prefer to read online. Maybe it's because I can never find my one pair of reading glasses when I need them.

Power Corrupts Both Protestant and Roman Catholic 'Hierarchies'

Roman Catholic historian Lord Acton famously wrote "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." He was speaking of the papacy, the leadership of his own church throughout history. This is true of any church or state hierarchy that lusts for power, not just the papacy. I found an article that enforces this truth about some of the conservative evangelical leadership, who became involved in a power struggle in Guatamala, and caused many to be led astray, and many of the weak to be trampled underfoot by those who should have shown love to them as our Lord taught us. The article is called "The Fundamentalist Surge in Latin America."

Luke 22:35-53 A Prophecy of the Sufficiency of Scripture and of the successors of Peter

Luke 22:
35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”
So they said, “Nothing.”
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”
38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”
And He said to them, “It is enough.”
...........................
47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48 But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and healed him.
52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests, captains of the temple, and the elders who had come to Him, “Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs? 53 When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness.”

Jesus said to sell their garments and buy a sword. They didn't understand that He was not speaking of a physical sword, but a spiritual one: the word of God. The two swords are the word of God: old testament and new testament. Jesus said of the two swords, "It is enough." The scripture is sufficient for all our needs as God's people.
When Jesus was being taken, one of them, whom we know from the gospel of John as the Apostle Peter, struck the servant of the High Priest with the sword and cut off his right ear. Jesus rebuked Peter (in John) and in Luke said to permit what was happening. It is interesting that the one Peter struck was the servant of the High Priest. Jesus is our High Priest and 'Peter' has struck the servant of the High Priest many times throughout history. The popes have struck out with the sword against Christ's servants who carry the sword of the Word instead of the physical sword. They have misunderstood as Peter did that Jesus said the sword of the Word is enough. Someday 'Peter' will understand that he has denied his Lord, perhaps when the final cock crows as morning is about to break, and the Lord turns and looks at 'Peter' again; then he'll remember the Word of the Lord and understand his sin.

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Jeremiah 33:18 does not prove a need for the Roman Catholic priesthood

In the comments of this Called to Communion post, people have brought up Jeremiah 33:18 to say that the Catholic priesthood is the fulfillment of this passage, saying that without the Catholic priesthood this passage is not fulfilled. Yet in 1 Peter 2:5, this passage is shown to be fulfilled in all the members of the church, as “a holy priesthood that offers up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.”

Jeremiah 33:17 “For thus says the LORD: ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; 18 nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.’”

1 Peter 2:5
you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

The Church doesn't build itself, nor is the 'Church' the authority for believers: God's Word is

John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word.
42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”

The Old Testament Canon and the Apocrypha Part Three: From Jerome to the Reformation: William Webster

Here is an article by William Webster on the canon which shows that the canon held by Jerome was the accepted canon of scripture until the Council of Trent officially added the Apocryphal books: The Old Testament Canon and the Apocrypha Part Three: From Jerome to the Reformation.

Some links on Justification, Salvation, Faith, and Righteousness

Here are some posts linking to studies my husband Eddie has done, and also some of my blog posts, on the subject of justification, salvation, faith, and works. This is to answer a statement Leo made in the com box of the post 'Historical Literature on the Earliest Papacy: John Bugay'. Leo said: "Sorry, but we are not saved by Faith alone. By God's grace, yes, but not by Faith alone... and we must respond to that grace."

Exchangedlife.com: We Are the Righteousness of God

Understanding Regeneration/Salvation: Part One

Understanding Regeneration/Salvation: Part Two

Exchangedlife.com: Bearing Fruit: The Purpose of Works

Bearing Fruit: The Purpose of Works: Part Two

Grace, Faith, and Good Works: acts17-11.com

Justification: The Catholic Church and the Judaizers in St. Paul's Letter to the Galatians

Repost: The Sabbath Rest Series

Understanding Faith: Part One

Understanding Faith: Part Two