Monday, September 06, 2010

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: In a discussion at Called to Communion

Here's a post by John Bugay that links to a discussion at 'Called to Communion' about some new scholarship on the structure of the early church at Rome.

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: In a discussion at Called to Communion

13 comments:

Christine said...

Jennie - without meaning to, you have linked to some absolutely brilliant answers to false issues you have raised. John Bugay links to a post at a Catholic site that Bugay thinks is addressing issues he (Bugay) has raised. In the comments at Called to Communion, he receives a gentle slap-down on that point - then Frank Beckwith and other very smart people effectively break down the reformed arguments against the papacy and apostolic succession. Challenging, brilliant site - Called to Communion - wish I had the time to explore all the writers and topics on offer there.

I'd love to hear your take on it, Leo, John, and Elena.

Jennie said...

Christine,
Peter Lampe isn't the first historian by far to research the structure of the early church. Maybe you should read the book, and also some other historians who have written about this. I believe Philipp Schaff wrote quite a bit about it. I'll find some links on it.

Jennie said...

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I suspect the reformed arguments will be just as challenging. It all depends on who you agree with as to who you think is brilliant, I guess.

Jennie said...

Here's another recent post on Beggar's All about the papacy:
http://pilgrimsdaughter.blogspot.com/2010/07/historical-literature-on-earliest.html

Here's Schaff's 'History of the Christian Church'.
http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/About.htm

Christine said...

Who said anything about anyone being the first historian to research the structure of the early church. Don't look for anti-Catholic links for my sake . . . I just wanted to alert folks to what I think is a great site, Called to Communion. Where dialogue is civil and respectful.

Jennie said...

In Schaff's book, Vol. 2 and Chapter IV is where he writes about the early structure and how that changed.

Jennie said...

John Bugay gives this comment in the thread on 'Called to Communion', to the author of the post who quoted from 'Ignatius':

The selection that you give from “Ignatius, to the Trallians” itself is a spurious interpolation — a fourth century addition to what his held to be an authentic letter of Ignatius — that is, it is evidence that has been tampered with.

What you’ve quoted as Ignatius is a fake, a forgery, and you yourself have cited it as if it were genuine. This perfectly illustrates a process, writ large, that helped to solidify the authority of the papacy, and helps to maintain it today, among those of you who choose to believe myths and fables (and worse) rather than to consider the genuine evidence.

Jennie said...

Here's an interesting post by John Bugay that he links in the comments:
http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/06/answers-for-dozie.html

Christine said...

Probably my favorite Catholic apologist is Peter Kreeft. I invite you to find his website and see what you think.

Elena said...

Oh I love to read young apologists doing their thing!

I think it's pretty heady stuff.

I think if Jennie really understood what the debate is about and how good the Cathlics were going to meet the challenge, she wouldn't have linked to it.
Too late now of course- I've book marked it!

Elena said...

OMG!!!All the authors of that site are converts to Catholicism!

How cool is that!

Leo said...

God has a great sense of humor!

Jennie said...

I've been on there a few times, and am fairly familiar with it. I've interacted a little with them. I know they're very scholarly, but I expect John to hold his own, and have some help from others. It's not a surprise to me that they are prepared. We don't need to be afraid of the truth coming out.