Wednesday, September 16, 2009

The Harlot: Part Two: Mary as the Second Eve

Psalm 2:
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

We had been talking about the Assumption of Mary over at Elena's blog, and as I was thinking about this and looking up information, I found these two opposing sources exressing views on the place of Mary in the church: Mary's Praise on Every Tongue, by P. J. CHANDLERY, S.J. and Dogmas of the Papacy: Book II, Chapter XIX: The Worship of the Virgin Mary by Rev. J.A. Wylie LL.D.

From 'Mary's Praise on Every Tongue' by P. J. CHANDLERY, S.J.:

ST. IRENAEUS, Bishop of Lyons (d. 202), speaks of
Mary as the Second Eve, as unfallen Eve, bearing a
part in man s Redemption similar to that which the first
Eve, by her transgression, had in his Fall. Livius, 37
seq., 43.

St. Ambrose of Milan (d. 397). " Evil came by the
woman (Eve), so good has come by a woman : for by Eve
we fell, by Mary we stand ; by Eve we were prostrated,
by Mary we are raised ; by Eve we were reduced to slavery,
by Mary we are made free (through her Divine Son). Eve
took from us length of days, Mary restored to us immor-
tality ; Eve caused us to be condemned by an apple of
the tree, Mary wrought our pardon by the gift of the
tree ; because Christ also hung upon the tree as fruit.
As therefore we died through a tree, so by a tree are we
brought to life. All (the evil) that was done by Adam
is washed out by Mary " (i.e. through the Blood of her
Divine Son). Livius, 52, 53.


From Dogmas of the Papacy: Book II, Chapter XIX: The Worship of the Virgin Mary by Rev. J.A. Wylie LL.D.

In the third place, the same works are ascribed to Mary as to Christ. She hears prayer, intercedes with God for sinners, guides, defends, and blesses them in life, succours them when dying, and receives their departing spirits into paradise. But passing over these things, the great work of Redemption, the peculiar glory of the Saviour, and the chief of God's ways, is now by Roman Catholics, plainly and without reserve, applied to Mary. The Father who devised, the Son who purchased, and the Spirit who applies, the salvation of the sinner, must all give place to the Virgin. It was her coming which prophets announced;[7] it is her victory which the Church celebrates. Angels and the redeemed of heaven ascribe unto her the glory and honour of saving men. She rose from the dead on the third day; she ascended to heaven; she has been re-united to her Son; and she now shares with Him power, glory, and dominion. "The eternal gates of heaven rolled back; the king's mother entered, and was conducted to the steps of his royal throne. Upon it sat her Son. . . . . 'A throne was set for the king's mother, and she sat upon his right hand.' And upon her brow he placed the crown of universal dominion; and the countless multitude of the heavenly hosts saluted her as the queen of heaven and earth."[8] All this Romanists ascribe to a poor fallen creature, whose bones have been mouldering in the dust for eighteen hundred years. We impute nothing to the Church of Rome, in this respect, which her living theologians do not teach. Instead of being ashamed of their Mariolatry, they glory in it, and boast that their Church is becoming every day more devoted to the service and adoration of the Virgin. The argument by which the work of redemption is ascribed to Mary we find briefly stated by Father Ventura, in a conversation with M. Roussel of Paris, then travelling in Italy.

"The Bible tells us but a few words about her" [the Virgin Mary], said M. Roussel to the Padre, "and those few words are not of a character to exalt her."

"Yes," replied Father Ventura, "but those few words express every thing! Admire this allusion: Christ on the cross addressed his mother as woman; God in Eden declared that the woman should crush the serpent's head; the woman designated in Genesis must therefore be the woman pointed out by Jesus Christ; and it is she who is the Church, in which the family of man is to be saved."

"But that is a mere agreement of words, and not of things," responded the Protestant minister.

"That is sufficient," said Father Ventura.[9]

Not less decisive is the testimony of Mr. Seymour, as regards the sentiments of the leading priests at Rome, and the predominating character of the worship of Italy. The following instructive conversation passed one day between him and one of the Jesuits, on the subject of the worship of the Virgin.

"My clerical friend," says Mr. Seymour, "resumed the conversation, and said, that the worship of the Virgin Mary was a growing worship in Rome,--that it was increasing in depth and intenseness of devotion,--and that there were now many of their divines--and he spoke of himself as agreeing with them in sentiment--who were teaching, that as a woman brought in death, so a woman was to bring in life,--that as a woman brought in sin, so a woman was to bring in holiness,--that as Eve brought in damnation, so Mary was to bring in salvation,--and that the effect of this opinion was largely to increase the reverence and worship given to the Virgin Mary."

"To prevent any mistake as to his views," says Mr. Seymour, "I asked whether I was to understand him as implying, that as we regard Eve as the first sinner, so we are to regard Mary as the first Saviour,--the one as the author of sin, and the other as the author of the remedy."

"He replied that such was precisely the view he wished to express; and he added, that it was taught by St. Alphonso de Liguori, and was a growing opinion."[10]



Roman Catholics claim Mary as the Second Eve, who brings salvation instead of sin. They appropriate the verse that says 'by Adam all died, by Christ all are made alive' and give it to Mary. It becomes 'by Eve all died, and by Mary all are made alive'. See
1 Cor. 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Eve is not mentioned, because she is included in Adam, as his wife who is one flesh with him, submitted under him. Mary is not the second Eve; the Bride is, who is one flesh with Christ and is submitted to Him. Mary is a representative of the Bride and is a member of her, which includes both Israel and the gentile church, one body. God is no respecter of persons, and Mary is not exalted above the church, but is 'blessed among women', not above them.

The Roman Catholic Church has condemned themselves doubly by this. First because they have given to Mary what belongs to her Son. Secondly because they have now committed the sin of Eve again in their worship of Mary and truly made 'Mary' the second Eve who brought sin into the Church, the temple of God, making her to be like God as Eve was tempted to do by the serpent. History has repeated itself because the lesson was still not learned though God Himself came down to teach it. Giving Mary the office and glory of Jesus Christ is idolatry and blasphemy. The RCC is exalting the creature rather than the Creator, and adding to the gospel by placing Mary in a position which does not belong to her. In this the Roman Catholic Church shows herself to be a harlot church rather than a true church, because she lifts up her word above the word of God and teaches and practices idolatry.

37 comments:

Daughter of Wisdom said...

So who do you suggest is the harlot woman? A person or a church?

Jennie said...

Hi Hillary,
did you read part one? because that tells who it is if you read the whole thing. If it isn't clear enough, I will correct it.

Jennie said...

I edited the end to clarify my meaning. Hope that helps.

Paul said...

Jennie,
I saved some notes on Mary as the New Eve.

Mary Eve Typology

http://books.google.com/books?id=GcVhAGpvTQ0C&pg=PA544&lpg=PA544&dq=Justin+Martyr+Eve+conceived&source=bl&ots=j5spG9WGbw&sig=HINUajkWTqdWJ76cJs4Thnml3Ww&hl=en


Augustine views Christ as the new Adam but differs from many of the Fathers in seeing the church, rather than Mary, as the new Eve.

The apologist Justin Martyr offered the earliest recorded witness to this parallel between Eve and Mary; Irenaeus of Lyons further elaborated it.

Augustine, on the other hand, writes: "two parents have begotten us to death . . . Adam and Eve, [two] parents have begotten us to life, Christ and the Chur



Ambrose: Original sin

Moreover, when expounding the Gospel according to Luke, he says: “It was no cohabitation with a husband which opened the secrets of the Virgin’s womb; rather was it the Holy Ghost which infused immaculate seed into her unviolated womb. For the Lord Jesus alone of those who are born of woman is holy, inasmuch as He experienced not the contact of earthly corruption, by reason of the novelty of His immaculate birth; nay, He repelled it by His heavenly majesty.”

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf105.xv.iv.xlvii.html

Jennie said...

I agree more with Augustine about who the new Eve is, except I would say that it is the New Adam who gives us life rather than the church. Though of course the church as the body of believers shares in giving the gospel to the world, and so is an instrument of giving life; so we are 'the saved' and also those who give the life-giving message. We can look at it both ways, I guess, since Christ is our Head and we are His body, we are all one. Yet we can do nothing apart from Christ.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

This Christ and the Church analogy makes a lot of sense! Adam was married to Eve, and Christ (the second Adam) is married to the church. Makes a lot of sense, if you ask me, and highly Biblical.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Now here is the tantalizing question? If the woman in Revelation 12 is the pure church, then is Christ married to and born of that same woman?

Jennie said...

Several interpretations I've read interpret the Woman of Rev. 12 as either Israel or the church who going through travail (tribulation) gives birth to the whole Body of Christ, the Head (Christ) being delivered first, and then the Body, the purified Church including saved Israel and the gentile church together. So the Man-child is Christ and the Church made one, who together will rule the nations with a rod of iron.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Jennie, it is precisely because of the mutlitplicity of interpretations that there is so much confusion as to the identity of both the Woman in Revelation 12 and Revelation 17.

The woman is Revelation 12 CANNOT be both the Church (Christ's bride) and His mother (Spiritual Israel). Based upon context, we need to choose the correct application.

The same is true of the woman in Revelation 17. She cannot just be A church (i.e one church denomination). She is the complete opposite in character to the woman in Revelation 12, and therefore must represent ALL those who are outside of Spiritual Israel or the true Church of Christ (The Church Invisible).

Historically speaking, I think many of the ECFs came to the same conclusion as I have stated above about the women in Revelation 12 and 17. Take a look at their views and corroborate their views with scripture for validity.

Any ECFs quotes here? Paul do you have any?

Peace and blessings.

Paul said...

"Any ECFs quotes here? Paul do you have any?"


Yes, I will gather some for you tonight.

In the meantime:

http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2009/08/mark-shea-and-revelation-12-woman.html

Jennie said...

The woman is Revelation 12 CANNOT be both the Church (Christ's bride) and His mother (Spiritual Israel). Based upon context, we need to choose the correct application.
I think the prophecy in Rev. 12 is a depiction of what is happening over time as God's plan for His people being separated to Him and finally united with Him is worked out. Israel and the church are both His people, and are being made into one people, one Bride. Israel gave birth to Christ, and those in Israel who believe become part of the Bride of Christ, and in turn lead the gentiles, whichever believe, to be part of the Bride, the Body of Christ, in turn. It's a depiction over time, I believe.

The same is true of the woman in Revelation 17. She cannot just be A church (i.e one church denomination). She is the complete opposite in character to the woman in Revelation 12, and therefore must represent ALL those who are outside of Spiritual Israel or the true Church of Christ (The Church Invisible).

I agree that the woman in Rev. 17 is not one denomination, however the RCC has already partially fulfilled this prophecy in the past, and will likely be a large part of fulfilling it finally, though it will then be combined with the hierarchies of many denominations who have come into agreement with each other at the end. We already see this happening in the ecumenical movement and the agreement of those who have abandoned the standard of God's word as the final authority and the embracing of mysticism as the way to 'God' instead of the Word revealed and illuminated by the Holy Spirit.

Sue Bee said...

If the woman in Revelation 12 is the pure church, then is Christ married to and born of that same woman?

It can be understood to mean the woman in chapter 12 is Israel and the harlot in chapter 17 is apostate Jerusalem.

Israel gives birth to the Savior, the Savior's bride is His Church.

I think we are generally in agreement. I look forward to learning what the ECFs saw in these verses.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Sue Bee wrote:

"It can be understood to mean the woman in chapter 12 is Israel and the harlot in chapter 17 is apostate Jerusalem."

-----------------------------------

Sue, I used to think that the harlot was apostate Jerusalem or apostate Israel too at first, until I read the whole chapter 17 in context. The verse that really rules out Jerusalem as being the apostate woman is verse 18.

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18).

Although Jerusalem or the children of Israel had played the harlot many times in the past, Jerusalem had never ruled over the kings of the earth. Apostate Israel or Jerusalem would be included in the daughters of the harlot though, for this woman is called the Mother of Harlots.


Yeah, I can't wait to see what the ECFs said. Paul, where are you?

Peace.

Paul said...

Here is a great article on this by Turretinfan

http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2009/03/peddling-imitation-patristics-rays-at.html

Daughter of Wisdom said...

I found a great article online about the woman in Revelation 12. You can read the article here.

This article endorses the view that the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel, using Biblical exegesis only.

Peace.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Here is another excellent article about the woman in Revelation 12.

As you can see, I am not the only one thinking this way. Both articles made great use of Biblical exegesis.

Peace.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

As a matter of fairness, this article refers to the woman of Revelation 12 as the church,but goes on to say that the church is spiritual Israel.

See article here.

The problem with this article is that they have strayed away from the context of the passage. The passage is dealing with the birth of the Messiah through the woman, and thus the woman must be the mother of the Messiah, not His bride. Also, in the passage, the devil goes and persecutes the remnant of her seed who "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus" (vs. 17). These seed are none other than the Christians, who came out of the Jewish religion of Israel. In other words, Spiritual Israel gave birth to not only the Messiah, but also to the Church. Both the Messiah and the Church came from Spiritual Israel, and well do we know that the devil persecuted Spiritual Israel, and eventually the Messiah and the Church when they came into being.



Peace.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Here is a quote taken from this website that shows that Babylon is the world system.

"The concept of Babylon is greater than Revelation 17-18 and the Antichrist’s reign. Babylon was present in John’s day (typified by Rome), in our day, and throughout history, as the “world system.” But under the Antichrist, Babylon (in both its religious and commercial aspects) will hold sway over the earth as never before" (http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/6617.htm).

They have done a good job in showing that Babylon is not a church, but a concept (imagery) depicting the world system of oppostion to God, in both the secular and religious arena. That to me is a more accurate exegesis of the woman in Revelation 17.

Peace.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Okay, I got some ECF quotes, but I pulled them from a website that I DO NOT endorse. Paul, please check these out for accuracy. I know I can count on you :-).

BABYLON REPRESENTS ROME

“So, again, Babylon, in our own John, is a figure of the city Rome, as being equally great and proud of her sway, and triumphant over the saints.” – Tertulian Answer to the Jews Chapter 9

“Abraham was born, which was about the 1200th year before Rome was founded, as it were another Babylon in the west.” – Augustine The City of GOD Book 16, Chapter 17

“Rome herself is like a second Babylon..... To be brief, the city of Rome was rounded, like another Babylon, and as it were the daughter of the former Babylon, ” – Augustine The City Of GOD Book 18, Chapter 2, 22

“And Peter makes mention of Mark in his first epistle which they say that he wrote in Rome itself, as is indicated by him, when he calls the city, by a figure, Babylon” – Church History Eusebius Book 2 Chapter 15.

THE HARLOT OF REVELATION 17 IDENTIFIED AS ROME.

“The seven heads are the seven hills, on which the woman sitteth. That is, the city of Rome”. – Victorinus [lived around 250AD] -Commentary on the Apocalypse

“Tell me, blessed John, apostle and disciple of the Lord, what didst thou see and hear concerning Babylon? Arise, and speak; for it sent thee also into banishment [Rome Banished John]. “And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters; with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” – Hippolytus [170-236]Treatise on Christ and AntiChrist.

“Read the apocalypse of John, and consider what is sung therein of the woman arrayed in purple, and of the blasphemy written upon her brow, of the seven mountains, of the many waters, and of the end of Babylon. “Come out of her, my people,” so the Lord says, “that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” It is true that Rome has a holy church... the faith has been preached there by an apostle, heathenism has been trodden down, the name of Christian is daily exalted higher and higher. But the display, power, and size of the city, the seeing and the being seen, the paying and the receiving of visits, the alternate flattery and detraction, talking and listening, as well as the necessity of facing so great a throng even when one is least in the mood to do so — all these things are alike foreign to the principles and fatal to the repose of the monastic life.” – Letters of St. Jerome, letter 46.

“[Rome] That powerful state which presides over the seven mountains and very many waters, has merited from the Lord the appellation of a prostitute.” – Tertulian Book 2 Chapter 12

Paul said...

“Read the apocalypse of John, and consider what is sung therein of the woman arrayed in purple, and of the blasphemy written upon her brow, of the seven mountains, of the many waters, and of the end of Babylon. “Come out of her, my people,” so the Lord says, “that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” It is true that Rome has a holy church... the faith has been preached there by an apostle, heathenism has been trodden down, the name of Christian is daily exalted higher and higher. But the display, power, and size of the city, the seeing and the being seen, the paying and the receiving of visits, the alternate flattery and detraction, talking and listening, as well as the necessity of facing so great a throng even when one is least in the mood to do so — all these things are alike foreign to the principles and fatal to the repose of the monastic life.” – Letters of St. Jerome, letter 46.
--------------
Full letter here:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.v.XLVI.html

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Paul, thanks for that reference with the full letter of Jerome. I see that he was trying to get Marcella to leave Rome and come to Palestine to be with him.

Great work!

Peace and Blessings.

Paul said...

This one looks kind of off base:

"“[Rome] That powerful state which presides over the seven mountains and very many waters, has merited from the Lord the appellation of a prostitute.” – Tertulian Book 2 Chapter 12

It seems from context that Tertullian is describing immodest dress.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0402.htm

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Paul, thanks. Here is the full text:

"Let us only wish that we may be no cause for just blasphemy! But how much more provocative of blasphemy is it that you, who are called modesty's priestesses, should appear in public decked and painted out after the manner of the immodest? Else, (if you so do,) what inferiority would the poor unhappy victims of the public lusts have (beneath you)? Whom, albeit some laws were (formerly) wont to restrain them from (the use of) matrimonial and matronly decorations, now, at all events, the daily increasing depravity of the age has raised so nearly to an equality with all the most honourable women, that the difficulty is to distinguish them. And yet, even the Scriptures suggest (to us the reflection), that meretricious attractivenesses of form are invariably conjoined with and appropriate to bodily prostitution. That powerful state which presides over the seven mountains and very many waters, has merited from the Lord the appellation of a prostitute. But what kind of garb is the instrumental mean of her comparison with that appellation? She sits, to be sure, in purple, and scarlet, and gold, and precious stone. How accursed are the things without (the aid of) which an accursed prostitute could not have been described! It was the fact that Thamar had painted out and adorned herself that led Judah to regard her as a harlot, and thus, because she was hidden beneath her veil,— the quality of her garb belying her as if she had been a harlot—he judged (her to be one), and addressed and bargained with (her as such). Whence we gather an additional confirmation of the lesson, that provision must be made in every way against all immodest associations and suspicions. For why is the integrity of a chaste mind defiled by its neighbour's suspicion? Why is a thing from which I am averse hoped for in me? Why does not my garb pre-announce my character, to prevent my spirit from being wounded by shamelessness through (the channel of) my ears? Grant that it be lawful to assume the appearance of a modest woman: to assume that of an immodest is, at all events, not lawful (Tertulian Book 2, Chapter 12).

It seems that Tertullian is comparing immodesty in women dressing to that of Babylon, the woman of Revelation 12. Notice he describes the woman (Babylon) as a powerful state that presides over seven mountains and many waters.

This agrees with my conclusion that Babylon represents a worldly system that is in opposition to God.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

I meant Babylon, the woman of Revelation 17.

Sue Bee said...

But, DOW, if Babylon is a the non-Christian world system, do you suppose the destruction of Babylon in chpt 18 is the destruction of the world?

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Sue Bee asked:

"But, DOW, if Babylon is a the non-Christian world system, do you suppose the destruction of Babylon in chpt 18 is the destruction of the world?"
-----------------------------------
Hi Sue,

Revelation 18 depicts the destruction of Babylon. It depicts the destruction of the world's economic system which is under the control of Babylon. This is not just a simple economic collapse like what we are experiencing, but it is God intervening to cause physical destruction in the earth which will render the political/economic/religious systems under Babylon defunct. An account of the physical destruction of Babylon is given in Revelation 16:17-21, as well as the whole of chapters 18 and 19.

Revelation 16:17-21:

"17And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

Babylon is not just simply the non Christian world system. It is the world system of politics, economics, and false religlion (including apostate Christianity) opposed to God. Ancient Rome was Babylon at the time of the apostles, because the Roman empire controlled the politics and economy of the civilized world of the West, as well as the religion. As such, Babylon represents the worldly system.

In Revelation 18, God tells His people to come out Babylon, because we live in the world's economy/political system and as such have jobs, live, and marry in Babylon. Unfortunately, some of us have adopted the philosophies of Babylon as well, with regards to sexual purity, gay/straight marriage, abortion, evolution, love of money, materialism, false religion, apostate Christianity, and so on. In Revelation 18, God ends the world's economic/political/religious systems at the end of the world, at the coming of Jesus. This will be the world's Armageddon.

And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon...And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(Revelation 16:16,19)

All world systems will come to an end with the return of Christ, Babylon will fall, and Christ will set up His millenial kingdom here on earth, where He will rule the nations with a "rod of iron" (Revelation 12:5).


Peace.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

My prediction is that Babylon will be at the heights of economic prosperity when Christ returns. People will be mourning over the demise of Bablyon when God destroys it because of the great loss of wealth which will follow the physical destruction by God.

Revelation 18:11-19:

"11And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate."

Just before the demise of Babylon, people will be saying, 'peace and safety' but what follows will end in 'sudden destruction.'

Peace.

Jennie said...

Thanks for your comments everyone. We've been out of town again this weekend, so I need to get caught up on everything.
Pray for people in GA and AL, there's alot of flooding here, but not too bad where we are.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Jennie, welcome back. I pray for the safety of you and your family.

Peace and Blessings.

Jennie said...

Thanks Hillary,
My husband couldn't get to work today because the interstate, I-20 into Atlanta, is covered with water in several places; and the perimeter highway, 285 is also closed in several places. It's amazing the damage that has been done by the water. They are going to have to inspect and repair the roads to make them safe again because so many have been washed out by the flooding.

Jennie said...

Here is a portion of 'The Works of Jonathan Edwards, Volume 2' which is a commentary I believe, and the page I found looks like part of a commentary on Luke. The first part of the page is talking about Mary as a type of the church.

Jennie said...

Oops, here's the page:
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/works2.xiv.xviii.html

Jennie said...

The first part of the page is talking about Mary as a type of the church.
So if Mary is a type, then it is like Joseph, Moses, Joshua, the Passover Lamb, etc. are types of Christ. So the type is the lesser thing, and that which it signifies is the greater thing. So Christ and the church are the greater things that are signified in scripture; Christ (and the whole Godhead) being the greatest of all because He is the Creator and the Church is the creation.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

Jennie wrote:

"So if Mary is a type, then it is like Joseph, Moses, Joshua, the Passover Lamb, etc. are types of Christ."
-----------------------------------

Jennie, when did Mary become a type of the church? It sounds like you are saying Mary is symbolic of the church. We know that Mary gave birth to Christ. Are you now saying that the church give birth to Christ? When did the bride (the church) give birth to her husband (Christ)?

Peace.

Jennie said...

Hillary,
Well, I think Mary is a type of Israel and the church united, as they are in Christ. I can't remember where I read this, but one of the church fathers, and also Jonathan Edwards, said Mary is a type of the church because just as Mary conceived Christ in her by the Holy Spirit, and He grew in her womb, so the believers conceive Christ in themselves by the Holy Spirit's regeneration and He grows in us.

Daughter of Wisdom said...

How are things there? Is the place drying out now?

Jennie said...

We didn't have any flooding at our house, but alot of people are still cleaning up and dealing with the aftermath of it. In some neigborhoods the houses were a total loss while some just had basement flooding. It all depended on if you were near a river or creek and were in an area that got the 10 t0 20 inches of rain in one day. We didn't get quite that much and we're on high ground.