Wednesday, August 31, 2011
'Whatever You're Doing' Music Video
Yesterday I was in my van alone, driving home from taking my 2 older girls to our homeschool co-op, and I heard this song for the first time. In my counseling sessions, one of the things I've been working on is a book on dealing with bitterness, by Lou Priolo. It is very helpful, but I've been struggling with it because seeing it in myself is so overwhelming. I was driving and crying and praying about all the things I see wrong and how I can't do it on my own, to let go of the bitterness and forgive. I had come to the point where I knew in my head that if I just stepped out in obedience, God would take it the rest of the way by His grace; but it still seemed so hard, like I would have to constantly have to be asking forgiveness for falling back into the bad patterns again. I don't know if this is making sense, but this song came on and it was exactly what I needed to hear; like God was answering me directly, and telling me He was going to help me each step of the way, as I obey Him in faith. He was saying that He's going to finish what He started in me, and in my family, because He loves us, and we're part of His plan to show His love to the world, too. I'm on my way to where God wants me to be. I'm seeing that following God's scriptural principles can bring healing very quickly. It is painful, but effective.
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@Jenny
I have been watching and reading.
Be mindful that biblically obedience doesn't lead to a life without pain or a life without suffering. Obedience is not the road to easy street. Remember that Jesus suffered and was sorrowful unto death because he chose the path of perfect obedience. If you seek to obey God, you will find much to weep about and as such can actually lead to deeper depression if the depression is not dealt with. Depression is a serious medical condition with a spiritual component. The spiritual cure for depression is hope not industry/obedience.
Here is the problem with trying to solve depression with obedience.
1. Mr. Therapist says scripture says to do X Y Z.
2. I am depressed.
3. I am not doing X Y Z.
4. Mr. Therapist says if I obey and do X Y Z I will not be depressed.
5. I am going to try my hardest to do X Y Z because then I will not be depressed.
This right here creates a placebo effect. If an individual to whom you perceive has authority states that doing X results in effect A, a great many people who do X will see result A even if all they are taking is a sugar pill. The problem with depression is that depression + industry can result in a worse form of depression where by one is functionally depressed but more profoundly without hope. Additionally this methodology is wholly dependent upon the denomination of Mr. Therapist as what Biblical obedience for a Lutheran is very different from Biblical obedience for a Presbyterian which is very different from a Methodist.
Solving depression by obedience can also lead to a severe case of scruples. If you read Martin Luther, it is pretty obvious that his early life was filled with psychological problems and highly likely depression. His solution was to try to solve everything through industry and obedience. It didn't work out so well for him, did it? He developed severe scruples and he relived himself of them by convincing himself that obedience was not what God desired, but rather only simple trust (fiducial faith) that Jesus had obeyed so that the elect wouldn't have to.
Now if doing X Y Z doesn't result in a placebo effect or if that effect stops or goes away, the depression is simply going to get much much worse. The patient will consider the lack of the effect to be a sign of their inability to obey God which only increases hopelessness and despair.
The solution to depression is again not obedience but to rather be screened for biological causes and deal with them and then work to restore hope to your life. Depression spiritually is self hatred brought on by the consideration that all will not end well, and this is as it should be.
Obedience can help by creating patterns in our lives for us to cling to and consider that things might turn out well, but the test to see if one has been cured from depression is to remove those patterns. If one returns to hopelessness and depression, obedience has done nothing. There is though not a direct correlation between obedience and not being depressed. There are many people who are rank sinners who are not depressed at all and many who are perfect in obediance who suffer from depression.
The Latin poet Ovid in his deepest grief once wrote
I have lost everything, only life has been left
in order that it furnish the feeling and the occasion of misfortune.
What benefit is there in jabbing iron into played-out limbs?
There isn’t any place left now for a new wound.
That darkness is not resolved by obedience but rather by hope.
I recommend (besides buying FAITH HOPE LOVE by Pieper) regimented praying of the scriptures. Don't study them as you will intellectually engage them trying to discern their meaning according to what you think they mean (and in a depressed state of mind you will come up with wrong meanings) but rather pray them so that your own voice becomes in harmony with the Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ.
I highly recommend 4 weeks of doing the Liturgy of the Hours, at least Lauds (Morning) and Vespers (Evening). 4 weeks is a complete cycle, and if you do all of the hours you will do all of the psalms. http://www.universalis.com/ It is not a cure all but it will force your mind to think biblically and thus you will begin to see hope woven into the rest of your daily life.
It is not a cure all and not a placebo --- also expect it to be rather difficult to do. Depression is spiritual warfare and the devil doesn't like people praying the liturgy of the hours. If you are spiritually depressed, the devil has already got his claws into you and he will not let go easily.
I say this all because I do want you to be cured from your depression -- true depression is a living nightmare.
Hi Anonymous,
Thank you. I should say that what is going on is not just industry, but that I am seeing biblical principles for dealing with bitterness, anger, depression, etc.: and then by faith I am stepping out to follow those principles step by step, knowing that I myself cannot do it, but that God will give grace as I walk by faith in His word.
I am not really trying to cure depression, but I am seeing that depression in some cases is a symptom of my own failures and sins and avoidance of reality and truth. In other words, depression is not the central issue. With me, bitterness that I have allowed to take root is central to many of my problems. If I deal with that then depression may be largely taken care of. As long as I submit to God's discipline and instruction through His word and the church. That may be similar to what you are recommending. Be back later, got to get pizzas out of the oven :)
@Jennie
Since you said that you are not really trying to cure your depression, I think that the question needs to be asked if you are seeking for relief or healing from your neurosis? I say neurosis here because I don't see you trying to deal with in terms other than behavioral therapy and it needs to be stressed that it is not possible to heal with biological and spiritual issues through behavior therapy. Yes behavior therapy can bring relief from depression by masking the symptoms, but it is not a cure. It is effective when used in conjunction with techniques that deal with biological and spiritual issues. You can think yourself out of the blues, but depression is much more than the blues. You can will yourself to be happy (sort of)
Why are you depressed? You are saying that you are depressed because you are angry and bitter as wells as your failures and sins and avoidance of reality and truth. You are telling me that you are being told that the cure for all of that is discipline and obedience.
If someone is gravely wounded from having the tendency to put their hands on a hot stove, does teaching them to not put their hands on the stove cure their wounded hands? No, it just prevents future wounds. Does obedience and discipline heal failures and sins? No, it just prevents future wounds.
When you talk about "avoidance of reality and truth" I would be cautious here. There is a thought within Protestantism, especially over on the Calvinist side of things, that a healthy Christian life is an industrious life -- there is very little time and positive attitude given towards the interior life -- the life of contemplation and prayer. This can be brought directly to the forefront with the question of "What is the use of a cloistered monk or nun?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUYjqp5PDdc&feature=related Industry, activity, obedience -- these are hallmarks of the United States Puritan roots. There is often great disdain for the intellectual mind which is "given to flights of fancy". Fairy tales, flights of fancy, "escapism", inward creativity -- are these things sins and disobedience? Further still is contemplation and the interior life of the soul disobedience? Is "biblical obedience" structured and given so that it suppresses and attempts to kill of the interior life of the individual in the name of promoting industry? This will create severe neurosises.
Obviously from this blog you are a creative person and have an interior life. You also have mentioned various times about your tendencies towards "escapism". That is not a bad thing nor is it sinful, it is just something that needs to be properly focused as all things need to be. Let me remind you that Jesus was very much into "escapism" and often had to get away from it all and go off to be by himself to pray, meditate, and many other things.
In terms of avoidance of truth, what truths are you avoiding? Perhaps many.
If you want healing from your depression, and anger and bitterness -- you need to go the biblical route. It is obvious from the Psalms of lament that this is done through restoring the natural and theological virtues of hope as well as submission to the sacramental discipline of God's chosen people. "Discipline" is much much more than simply obeying the precepts of the law, it is submitting oneself to the physician's knife. Obedience is not just acting in a certain fashion, it is allowing and permitting another to act in a certain way upon your very own person. And all of this is for naught if there is not love. Love is what saves, not obedience. The most obedient woman will find hell at the end of her life if she does not love.
I am not your physician but there is much in your pain, anger, and depression that speaks to me of needing the sacrament of penance to heal those specific wounds. Obviously that is not open to you. But there are things that you can do. The Liturgy of the Hours, which I have suggested, and is something that dates back to Judaism and is why Muslims pray 5 times a day is probably not something that you will do, even though it would be most helpful. There is nothing objectionable to praying it as it is 90% pure scripture and the rest is from writings most ancient. It is just a control issue -- a desire to determine for yourself how to pray and not to pray according to the voice of the People of God. I guarantee that it would be most helpful, and it will change your life. Yes I am going to hammer that because it is something that you can do. The hardest thing that I think you will have is giving up self control and allowing you yourself to determine what is and what is not "biblical truth".
www.universalis.com 4 weeks of Lauds and Vespers (morning and evening) is a complete cycle. If you do all the Hours that's even better as that will more clearly bring to life the ebb and flow of scripture, but that is something that you would want to work towards but not something fo rnow. It will change your life, guaranteed.
Wishing you the best.
Here is the problem with trying to solve depression with obedience.
1. Mr. Therapist says scripture says to do X Y Z.
2. I am depressed.
3. I am not doing X Y Z.
4. Mr. Therapist says if I obey and do X Y Z I will not be depressed.
5. I am going to try my hardest to do X Y Z because then I will not be depressed.
This right here creates a placebo effect.
Actually what is going on with me is that I'm reading a booklet about bitterness, and it makes clear that scripture says I should not harbor bitterness but should confess it as sin, repent, and forgive the person if they have sinned against me. I should not dwell on any past offenses nor bring them up to the person again once forgiven. This is what I am obeying. It is a step of faith because I myself cannot forgive by my own power. I have obeyed by submitting to God and knowing by faith that He will give me grace to forgive and forget. After I talked to my husband and told him I was letting go of the past, and asked forgiveness for bitterness, I have seen a difference in myself already. I stepped out in faith and He made up the difference. He changed me.
I recommend (besides buying FAITH HOPE LOVE by Pieper) regimented praying of the scriptures. Don't study them as you will intellectually engage them trying to discern their meaning according to what you think they mean (and in a depressed state of mind you will come up with wrong meanings) but rather pray them so that your own voice becomes in harmony with the Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ.
Praying scripture is a good thing; no problem with that.
I highly recommend 4 weeks of doing the Liturgy of the Hours, at least Lauds (Morning) and Vespers (Evening). 4 weeks is a complete cycle, and if you do all of the hours you will do all of the psalms. http://www.universalis.com/ It is not a cure all but it will force your mind to think biblically and thus you will begin to see hope woven into the rest of your daily life.
Thanks Anon. It's hard for me to find a regular time to have a quiet time for things like that, but that's one of my problems. I need to get on a regular schedule. Maybe this will help me to do that.
Since you said that you are not really trying to cure your depression, I think that the question needs to be asked if you are seeking for relief or healing from your neurosis? I say neurosis here because I don't see you trying to deal with in terms other than behavioral therapy and it needs to be stressed that it is not possible to heal with biological and spiritual issues through behavior therapy. Yes behavior therapy can bring relief from depression by masking the symptoms, but it is not a cure. It is effective when used in conjunction with techniques that deal with biological and spiritual issues. You can think yourself out of the blues, but depression is much more than the blues. You can will yourself to be happy (sort of)
I addressed briefly in an earlier comment that I'm not being told to 'obey' but am being given booklets that use scriptural principles to deal with specific problems, like bitterness. Then I am seeking to follow those principles by faith. So it's not behavioral therapy, but is faithfully following God's principles, and allowing Him to fulfill His promises which He gives to those who love and obey Him by faith. The Holy Spirit who lives in me gives me strength, comfort, and grace as I walk by faith. The scriptures are my guide and comfort also, and God changes me by them and by His Spirit.
Why are you depressed? You are saying that you are depressed because you are angry and bitter as wells as your failures and sins and avoidance of reality and truth. You are telling me that you are being told that the cure for all of that is discipline and obedience.
My depression began in childhood, I believe partly because of bitterness in my home that I picked up on because of being very sensitive and introverted.
If someone is gravely wounded from having the tendency to put their hands on a hot stove, does teaching them to not put their hands on the stove cure their wounded hands? No, it just prevents future wounds. Does obedience and discipline heal failures and sins? No, it just prevents future wounds.
I think discipline is just a way for me to get organized and to remember to put things in proper order and priority, so I have what I need when I need it. If I put God first, then He will best be able to help me as I trust in Him minute by minute. If I don't do that, then I forget to look to Him for help in everything, and I forget to do what is most important, instead getting distracted by whatever is in front of me. So discipline is only a tool. What heals me is looking to God in prayer and in His word every day, every minute if possible. Also I am healed by praising Him to and with other believers in song and prayer and speech. God heals me in all these things.
If you want healing from your depression, and anger and bitterness -- you need to go the biblical route. It is obvious from the Psalms of lament that this is done through restoring the natural and theological virtues of hope as well as submission to the sacramental discipline of God's chosen people. "Discipline" is much much more than simply obeying the precepts of the law, it is submitting oneself to the physician's knife. Obedience is not just acting in a certain fashion, it is allowing and permitting another to act in a certain way upon your very own person. And all of this is for naught if there is not love. Love is what saves, not obedience. The most obedient woman will find hell at the end of her life if she does not love.
Well, what I am undergoing is called Biblical counseling and my counselor is an older, wiser, godly woman who has been called by God in the church to counsel those who deliberately seek help from God through the church and the scriptures. You may not agree that this is as good as the Catholic church, but I believe it would be good if you could see that God works through His people wherever they are, and that the Catholic Church is not THE church, and that I can find the help I need in the part of the church I am in.
In that place I am learning to submit to God in His word, in counsel, in His Spirit working in me. I am repenting of sin, and returning to my first love. I'm finding hope in scripture, and renewing my love for God and my family as I see His minute love and care for me, and His faithfulness to His promises.
Hope that last didn't sound angry, because it's not :)
Fairy tales, flights of fancy, "escapism", inward creativity -- are these things sins and disobedience? Further still is contemplation and the interior life of the soul disobedience? Is "biblical obedience" structured and given so that it suppresses and attempts to kill of the interior life of the individual in the name of promoting industry? This will create severe neurosises.
Calvinism may have that tendency, not sure. I value 'the interior life'. I spend alot of time there. I just need to make sure I put God first there as well as in the outer life. I love creativity and find meaning in all the art forms. I have thought recently that I need to express myself in music, art, and writing in order to heal, and help others as well. I haven't let that part of me work as it should. I let it be squelched and silent for a long time.
I've always been in love with fairy tales. Have you read any of George MacDonald's stories, like 'The Princess and the Goblin' or 'The Princess and Curdie'?
Hmmm. I found divineoffice.org yesterday, and was dismayed and distracted by the fact that yesterday was the feast of the birth of the Virgin Mary, which means she was mentioned quite a bit, and the Hail Mary was prayed, and there was a hymn to her, which called her the dawn, and Jesus the day, etc.. I would have to skip all the prayers and praises to Mary.
Then today, there was a hymn by the protestant Isaac Watts, and a passage of scripture from Luke in which Zechariah prophesies that 'the dawn from on high shall break upon us', which of course refers to Jesus Christ. Kind of distracting to me also, wondering why there was a protestant hymn, and if anyone else noticed that yesterday Mary was the 'dawn' and today Jesus is. I don't know if this is a good thing, or if I should try to get past my analytical distractions.
It's good that there are alot of scripture passages every day from different parts of the Bible. I like to read a passage from Psalms and Proverbs, and a passage from the Old Testament and the New Testament daily, though I don't often get to do all that daily. Maybe I should go back to this. Thinking about it.
Kind of weird that I would consider looking at the liturgy of the hours, but I'm thinking, not that Roman Catholicism is the way to go, but that we as individual believers have something in common that I can share in. There is so much that I can't agree on, but also alot that I can agree with. I can't be Roman Catholic, but I can take from people that which is good and leave the rest to be sorted out later. I suppose those of you who are RC might think the same way about me, and hopefully can receive some things from me as well.
@Jennie
Sorry, I have been away -- my own personal depression flaired up and things are still quite bad. Unfortunately I will be away from computers for a few days. If I hammer you hard on getting a robust treatment, it is because my own depression scares me. Sometimes we who are severely depressed need to be poked by someone who knows how bad it is.
The following is horribly abbreviated and does no justice to what you wrote. Hopefully later.
When I evaluate any program, I ask myself -- is this just a secular program using biblical terminology, or is it something that exists in such a way that it cannot be repeated by secular methods?
Biblically "confessing it as sin" isn't the same thing as "tell the person(s) who hurt you that they hurt you and then let them know that you are forgiving them and letting go of the past so you are not committing the sin of bitterness any more" This is fairly sound psychological advice (bit guilty trippy but it does work) because it lets us let go of the past and move on.
Biblically though, what does "confessing a sin" look like? There is a strong sense that confession is done to God, but also to the community -- specifically through liturgy. In the OT there are various personal prayers, but also a strong impetus on liturgical confession and atonement. When we move to the NT, does "confessing a sin" become something that is strictly private between the individual and God? No the public and liturgical dimension still remains. James 5:16 for example is a direct command to "confess our sins to one and another" and when we read this in context of the whole passage, we find that the "to one and other" is a reference to liturgy and action by the episcopate/presbyterate. One confesses to be healed, as the passage says, it is the presbyterate that heals, for they are the righteous men who have that authority to loosen people from sin (Matt 18:18).
Let me back this up with the earliest catechism “In church confess your sins, and do not come to your prayer with a guilt conscience. Such is the Way of Life...On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure." Didache, 4:14,14:1 (c. A.D. 90).
So let me ask are you at a minimum confessing your sins to the elder of your community and is he loosening and healing you from your sins?
I think it is important to point out that we confess our sins only in part to be forgiven -- we dont want what we did to be held against us -- but we confess also, and more importantly to be healed from the damage that sin has caused.
@Jennie
What you wrote didn't sound angry.
"Biblical counseling" though for me is a tricky thing because half the time I don't find it to be all that biblical. In a lot of what you write, obedience is very strong -- but God isn't calling us to obey Him -- He is calling us to communion -- theosis. Obedience is a very rudimentary step in that direction. That is Paul's insight in the book of Romans and it is rather intense -- Obedience to the Law is not salvific, becoming Christ is -- Christ saves us by engrafting us into His very own life, so that as Paul says -- it is no longer I who lives but Christ.
Thus when you talk at length about obedience, I ask myself right away...where is charity where is love? Teach a man to obey and he will obey so long as someone is there to enforce the law. Teach a man to love another, and he will go beyond obedience to manifesting the life of his beloved in his own very life.
Ok lets say you are obeying scriptures. --- are you working towards a point where what they say becomes manifest in your life so that if we take them away for the rest of your life, you will not only never transgress any written law in them, but no law which is not stated in the text, but even further that your own life is not just a manifestation of the law, but the very life of the law giver?
I say this to point you towards where you want the arrow to land, not just the here and now of pulling back the bow.
Yes Calvinism has a disdain for the interior life. You don't have Calvinistic Monks or Nuns do you? What is the use of someone who prays all day? None so they closed the monistaries. Oh and have you ever read Calvin's views on art, dance, music, culture?
@Jennie
I really encourage you to be creative. Heal through art and music and writing. Don't let it be squelched. (I will be coming back to this at a later date).
I do recommend STRONGLY to do the Liturgy of the Hours. It is also not Roman Catholic but Christian (and Jewish too). I suggest using the Roman Catholic version because it has a better structure to it than others that I have seen.
I guarantee that it will change your life.
God bless you.
@Jennie
Im pulling the Hymn over here in full so others can see.
Mary the Dawn, Christ the Perfect Day;
Mary the Gate, Christ the Heav’nly Way!
Mary the Root, Christ the Mystic Vine;
Mary the Grape, Christ the Sacred Wine!
Mary the Wheat-sheaf, Christ the Living Bread;
Mary the Rose-Tree, Christ the Rose Blood-red!
Mary the Font, Christ the Cleansing Flood;
Mary the Chalice, Christ the Saving Blood!
Mary the Temple, Christ the Temple’s Lord;
Mary the Shrine, Christ the God adored!
Mary the Beacon, Christ the Haven’s Rest;
Mary the Mirror, Christ the Vision Blest!
Mary the Mother, Christ the Mother’s Son.
Both ever blest while endless ages run.
Amen.
It is pretty obvious that as much as Mary is illuminated, that Christ is infinitely more magnified. The Hymn is structured in such a way that Mary serves as a herald and precursor to Christ. If Mary is x then Christ is Y!
I think it is important to remember that the prophecy of scripture is that the Son of God will be born of the Virgin -- not that the Son of God will come as a full grown man.
Biblically speaking, the mother is THE indicator of who the Son of God is. She is Theotokos, God-bearer, the one who gives the Christ to the world. In identifying who the Virgin is, one with absolute assurance identifies who the Christ is.
So this hymn calls Mary the Dawn. This is not to detract from where Christ is called the dawn and besides such descriptors are often used for more than one person. In this hymn, Mary is called the dawn because from her springs forth the "day" who is Christ. In the passage from Luke, Christ is called the dawn it is a different effect. Its "dawn from on high" but I think I could put that much better by saying the first light of the universe, the light that brought forth all things -- the primordial light from which all spring. So when Luke is saying that the "dawn" has visited us, he is not meaning dawn dawn but rather the first dawn, the first light. The hymn with Mary is not describing Mary as that type of dawn, but rather the dawn that brings forth the day.
All better now?
Biblically though, what does "confessing a sin" look like? There is a strong sense that confession is done to God, but also to the community -- specifically through liturgy. In the OT there are various personal prayers, but also a strong impetus on liturgical confession and atonement. When we move to the NT, does "confessing a sin" become something that is strictly private between the individual and God? No the public and liturgical dimension still remains. James 5:16 for example is a direct command to "confess our sins to one and another" and when we read this in context of the whole passage, we find that the "to one and other" is a reference to liturgy and action by the episcopate/presbyterate. One confesses to be healed, as the passage says, it is the presbyterate that heals, for they are the righteous men who have that authority to loosen people from sin (Matt 18:18).
Hi Anonymous,
I'm praying for you for your depression.
I need to do another post on what happened after this, because that same day and the next I confessed to God my bitterness and submitted to Him in faith knowing that what He commands He also enables us to do. He commands us to forgive and not to hold bitterness, so I believed that He would help me if I committed to do this by faith. Then, after confessing to God, I confessed to my church through the prayer chain and asked for prayer to help me. Then the next day I talked to my husband as I mentioned above. This is 'confessing your sins to one another', as the passage you gave says: "Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." This is bringing healing, as it says. Well, I don't see that it has to refer to the presbyteriate, because any believer can be a righteous man or woman and can pray for other believers.
Actually it's not a prayer chain, it's a google group for church prayer requests.
I haven't been able to read and pray all of the parts of the hours, but I enjoyed the beginning of the morning and midday prayers and psalms today.
I think this morning was the prayer of Daniel and on the midday I enjoyed the first hymn and the portion of Psalm 119 and the part that says "Do the things you have learned, and you will be blessed" which was repeated several times. I thought that last part was very fitting to what I've been saying, about doing what God has taught me lately and God giving me grace and help. It is a blessing when God works in you and in your family life.
@Jennie
What is depression like for me? It is like being face to face with a black wall of the darkest obsidian, except the wall isn't there just a void. It is crushing if emptiness could be described as crushing.
With James, the presbyterate is specifically spoken of in 5:14. We know that the "righteous man" in James 5:16 refers to the presbyterate because we are talking about a specific individual here -- the righteous man. In the Church, where one confesses one's sins, who is the righteous man? This cannot be the individual believers who are confessing. For example, if we were confessing to each other, both of us are sick in our sin and thus we cannot be said to be righteous but rather sick. If we return to 5:14-15 we find that the prayers of the presbyterte both bring about the healing of bodily sickness and the forgiveness of sins. 5:16 says that the PRAYER OF FAITH does this. Who says this PRAYER OF FAITH? Gramatically, the Presbyterate is the one saying the prayer. In 5:16 it describes the prayer of the "righteous man" as the EFFECTUAL PRAYER, that it is that it is with power and brings something about. Now from verses 5:16 we know that the presbyterate's "PRAYER OF FAITH" is with power and brings something about. Structurally then we need to see that the PRAYER OF FAITH (5:15) and the EFFECTUAL PRAYER (5:16) and the PRAYER OF THE PRESBYTERATE (5:14) are all the same thing said by the same individual. The PRAYER OF THE PRESBYTERATE and the PRAYER OF FAITH are said by the presbyterate. As we have established that the EFFECTUAL PRAYER is the same as the previous two prayers, we can say that it is said by the same person so that the "righteous man" refers to the presbyterate.
I hope you are enjoying the Liturgy of the Hours. Morning and Evening prayers, as much as you can. Four weeks now.
Keep writing and journelling out what you are finding from reading scripture this way. As you do this and reflect upon scripture when it is put into a pattern that is not according to your own whimsy, but rather according to the Church, you will start seeing things differently and you will see more and more of the truth of the hope that God gives to us -- which, as I have said, hope is the only cure for depression.
We will talk more, I like your reflections and what you are talking about, but sometimes you have to discover what is there rather than someone try to tell you about it.
Blessings
All better now?
No, but have you read some of the discussions we've had on posts about the Marian doctrines? You'll see that those really bother me. Don't want to go there. I have realized that (though I believe the Marian practices are at the least a distraction from worship of God and at worst become actual idolatry) I have my own idols to overthrow in my life, so I need to get the plank out of my own eye for now.
@Jennie
I've read a bit of them and if they were not so out of date I would have posted a bit there.
From a Catholic point of view, the Marian doctrines are quite a bit biblical, and to detract from Mary, the prophecies surrounding her, and her role in the Church really is to diminish Christ.
I know that is hard for you to grasp and it bothers you, but if you ever do see it, it will be like one of those magic eye things, or finding Waldo, or noticing that the FedEx logo has an arrow in it -- you will always be able to see it and you will wonder why you never saw it before.
I won't belabor the point as it bothers you.
Anonymous,
your depression sounds terrible. What I have suffered is not like that, though when I was a young teen I had times when I felt what I called black depression. I get depressed now when I see my failures or when I sin and feel like God may give up on me because I knew better.
I think the depression began when I sensed unhappiness in my home as a child. Then it became something I didn't know how to get out of. And it was combined with anxiety about many things. I don't have as much anxiety now.
@Jennie
Yes the depression is bad, and I fear often that it could become just that much worse. Ive never really hit "rock bottom", but then again I suppose "rock bottom" is exiting stage left.
One of the things that has helped me along in my struggles was actually developing a good sense of "Catholic Guilt". To have a sense of ones sins and to express sorrow for those sins, expecially the profound sorrow that comes from knowing that healing and forgiveness is possible, really is liberating.
One can see their failures and sins and be deeply depressed about them, and yet not feel true sorrow for those sins. Hell is filled with people who despise their sins and what they have become -- they loath everything that has made them what they are -- yet there is no sense of sorrow and contrition -- only hate and the selfhatred of despair.
True sorrow only comes from knowing healing -- and as one is healed one knows their guilt better and can more clearly see how much more they truly need God.
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