ANOTHER UPDATE: I'm opening comments here now, since everybody seems to be scared of TurretinFan and won't go over there. But please read all the links here if you want to comment.
Thoughts of Francis Turretin: How Many Popes Does it Take to Deny the Immaculate Conception?
I'm going to try something new, since I'm not a patristic scholar. If anyone wants to comment, please do so over at TurretinFan's blog. I may open comments here later on.
UPDATE: Here are two more articles which Jason Engwer linked to in the comments of TurretinFan's post on the debate on the Immaculate Conception:
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006/09/some-early-sources-on-sinlessness-of.html
http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006/09/some-later-sources-on-sinlessness-of.html
Showing posts with label Mariolotry. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Mariolotry. Show all posts
Friday, September 03, 2010
Monday, August 30, 2010
Thoughts of Francis Turretin: The White-Ferrara Marian Debate - Some Follow-Up
More from TurretinFan on the Immaculate Conception.
Thoughts of Francis Turretin: The White-Ferrara Marian Debate - Some Follow-Up
In the post TurretinFan links to 'Ineffibilis Deus' which is the document which declares the Immaculate Conception to be official Church Dogma. Here is a quote from it that shows the purpose of the doctrine and the spirit of it, which is offensive beyond words:
All our hope do we repose in the most Blessed Virgin -- in the all fair and immaculate one who has crushed the poisonous head of the most cruel serpent and brought salvation to the world: in her who is the glory of the prophets and apostles, the honor of the martyrs, the crown and joy of all the saints; in her who is the safest refuge and the most trustworthy helper of all who are in danger; in her who, with her only-begotten Son, is the most powerful Mediatrix and Conciliatrix in the whole world; in her who is the most excellent glory, ornament, and impregnable stronghold of the holy Church; in her who has destroyed all heresies and snatched the faithful people and nations from all kinds of direst calamities; in her do we hope who has delivered us from so many threatening dangers. We have, therefore, a very certain hope and complete confidence that the most Blessed Virgin will ensure by her most powerful patronage that all difficulties be removed and all errors dissipated, so that our Holy Mother the Catholic Church may flourish daily more and more throughout all the nations and countries, and may reign "from sea to sea and from the river to the ends of the earth," and may enjoy genuine peace, tranquility and liberty. We are firm in our confidence that she will obtain pardon for the sinner, health for the sick, strength of heart for the weak, consolation for the afflicted, help for those in danger; that she will remove spiritual blindness from all who are in error, so that they may return to the path of truth and justice, and that here may be one flock and one shepherd.
All these things ascribed to Mary are things that only God Himself does, and our hope and praise should go to Him alone. Christ is the one who crushed the head of the serpent. This is why I am offended and continue to feel the need to expose the spirit behind this doctrine.
I posted this whole chapter a few days ago and bolded this passage, hoping it might strike a chord: 1 Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
We believe in God the Father through Christ alone, and our faith and hope are in Him.
Thoughts of Francis Turretin: The White-Ferrara Marian Debate - Some Follow-Up
In the post TurretinFan links to 'Ineffibilis Deus' which is the document which declares the Immaculate Conception to be official Church Dogma. Here is a quote from it that shows the purpose of the doctrine and the spirit of it, which is offensive beyond words:
All our hope do we repose in the most Blessed Virgin -- in the all fair and immaculate one who has crushed the poisonous head of the most cruel serpent and brought salvation to the world: in her who is the glory of the prophets and apostles, the honor of the martyrs, the crown and joy of all the saints; in her who is the safest refuge and the most trustworthy helper of all who are in danger; in her who, with her only-begotten Son, is the most powerful Mediatrix and Conciliatrix in the whole world; in her who is the most excellent glory, ornament, and impregnable stronghold of the holy Church; in her who has destroyed all heresies and snatched the faithful people and nations from all kinds of direst calamities; in her do we hope who has delivered us from so many threatening dangers. We have, therefore, a very certain hope and complete confidence that the most Blessed Virgin will ensure by her most powerful patronage that all difficulties be removed and all errors dissipated, so that our Holy Mother the Catholic Church may flourish daily more and more throughout all the nations and countries, and may reign "from sea to sea and from the river to the ends of the earth," and may enjoy genuine peace, tranquility and liberty. We are firm in our confidence that she will obtain pardon for the sinner, health for the sick, strength of heart for the weak, consolation for the afflicted, help for those in danger; that she will remove spiritual blindness from all who are in error, so that they may return to the path of truth and justice, and that here may be one flock and one shepherd.
All these things ascribed to Mary are things that only God Himself does, and our hope and praise should go to Him alone. Christ is the one who crushed the head of the serpent. This is why I am offended and continue to feel the need to expose the spirit behind this doctrine.
I posted this whole chapter a few days ago and bolded this passage, hoping it might strike a chord: 1 Peter 1:20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
We believe in God the Father through Christ alone, and our faith and hope are in Him.
Thursday, August 26, 2010
Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Was Mary Sinless?
Today TurretinFan posted this link to a friend's post about the immaculate conception. I can't help it, I have to link to it. Jesus is the only one who is sinless, and Mary stands for all of us who fall yet are redeemed by His blood.
Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Was Mary Sinless?
Thoughts of Francis Turretin: Was Mary Sinless?
Friday, July 30, 2010
Visits to Candyland: Two discussions based on 'Mary Vitamin?'
Elena of Visits to Candyland has continued the discussion from my 'Mary Vitamin?' post in two discussions on her blog:
Scripture and Tradition Discussion with Jennie
Latest Apologetics Debate
Scripture and Tradition Discussion with Jennie
Latest Apologetics Debate
Tuesday, July 13, 2010
Mary Vitamin?
'Under Her Starry Mantle' blog has a link to something called a Mary Vitamin.
Here's an excerpt from the linked post:
She is God’s Spouse, God’s Daughter, God’s Mother. God did not let Her body corrupt in the earth at death. In fact, He never permitted any stain of sin to mar Her beauty before Him. She never sinned, but more than that, She never lost a drop of grace poured out upon Her from God. She deserves more attention from us than any of the saints. We call this “hyperdulia.”Moreover, She deserves such great attention from us because Our Lord, with His dying breath said :"Woman, behold your son. Son, behold your Mother.” The last words from a mortal man sum up his life, what if the words are from the lips of God?
Not one phrase of that has any scriptural support. If God never allowed 'God's spouse' to have any stain of sin to mar her beauty before Him, why does He allow His real spouse, Spiritual Israel, to at first have a stain of sin to mar her beauty? Mary is not God's spouse, Israel is. Mary is not God's mother; God has none (See Hebrews 7:3). She is God's daughter only as a believer along with all who believe. She is only a representative of the bride indwelt by Christ and of Israel giving birth to her savior. Both Israel and the church are sinful and are being redeemed. Mary is no different.
And sorry, but I'd rather learn directly from God and His word and not have the fleshly veil of 'Mary' in between us. God didn't appoint Mary to teach us, but the Holy Spirit working through Apostles, pastors, and teachers.
Jesus NEVER ONCE called Mary 'mother' in scripture. When He spoke to her directly in inspired scripture, He always called her 'woman'. The Woman always represents all of God's people, not one woman. Mary was one of many 'Mary's' in scripture and she was and is just one of many believers.
Jesus didn't speak to Mary with His dying breath; His last words were 'Father, into Thy hands I commit my Spirit' and 'It is finished' probably in that order. Again notice that He still didn't call her His 'Mother' but instead gave her to John. Mary could not be His mother anymore, and she was also rebuked when she tried to act as His mother during His ministry on earth.
Finally, speaking of being 'under her starry mantle' I would rather be under something more spiritually enduring:
Psalm 91:
1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High
Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, “He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust.”
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
Here's an excerpt from the linked post:
She is God’s Spouse, God’s Daughter, God’s Mother. God did not let Her body corrupt in the earth at death. In fact, He never permitted any stain of sin to mar Her beauty before Him. She never sinned, but more than that, She never lost a drop of grace poured out upon Her from God. She deserves more attention from us than any of the saints. We call this “hyperdulia.”Moreover, She deserves such great attention from us because Our Lord, with His dying breath said :"Woman, behold your son. Son, behold your Mother.” The last words from a mortal man sum up his life, what if the words are from the lips of God?
Not one phrase of that has any scriptural support. If God never allowed 'God's spouse' to have any stain of sin to mar her beauty before Him, why does He allow His real spouse, Spiritual Israel, to at first have a stain of sin to mar her beauty? Mary is not God's spouse, Israel is. Mary is not God's mother; God has none (See Hebrews 7:3). She is God's daughter only as a believer along with all who believe. She is only a representative of the bride indwelt by Christ and of Israel giving birth to her savior. Both Israel and the church are sinful and are being redeemed. Mary is no different.
And sorry, but I'd rather learn directly from God and His word and not have the fleshly veil of 'Mary' in between us. God didn't appoint Mary to teach us, but the Holy Spirit working through Apostles, pastors, and teachers.
Jesus NEVER ONCE called Mary 'mother' in scripture. When He spoke to her directly in inspired scripture, He always called her 'woman'. The Woman always represents all of God's people, not one woman. Mary was one of many 'Mary's' in scripture and she was and is just one of many believers.
Jesus didn't speak to Mary with His dying breath; His last words were 'Father, into Thy hands I commit my Spirit' and 'It is finished' probably in that order. Again notice that He still didn't call her His 'Mother' but instead gave her to John. Mary could not be His mother anymore, and she was also rebuked when she tried to act as His mother during His ministry on earth.
Finally, speaking of being 'under her starry mantle' I would rather be under something more spiritually enduring:
Psalm 91:
1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High
Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, “He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust.”
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
Sunday, July 11, 2010
"I the LORD will answer him who comes, according to the multitude of his idols"
Ezekiel 14
1 Now some of the elders of Israel came to me and sat before me. 2 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 3 “Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts, and put before them that which causes them to stumble into iniquity. Should I let Myself be inquired of at all by them?
4 “Therefore speak to them, and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Everyone of the house of Israel who sets up his idols in his heart, and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, and then comes to the prophet, I the LORD will answer him who comes, according to the multitude of his idols, 5 that I may seize the house of Israel by their heart, because they are all estranged from Me by their idols.”’ 6 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Repent, turn away from your idols, and turn your faces away from all your abominations. 7 For anyone of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who separates himself from Me and sets up his idols in his heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, then comes to a prophet to inquire of him concerning Me, I the LORD will answer him by Myself. 8 I will set My face against that man and make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of My people. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.
9 “And if the prophet is induced to speak anything, I the LORD have induced that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel. 10 And they shall bear their iniquity; the punishment of the prophet shall be the same as the punishment of the one who inquired, 11 that the house of Israel may no longer stray from Me, nor be profaned anymore with all their transgressions, but that they may be My people and I may be their God,” says the Lord GOD.’”
1 Now some of the elders of Israel came to me and sat before me. 2 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 3 “Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts, and put before them that which causes them to stumble into iniquity. Should I let Myself be inquired of at all by them?
4 “Therefore speak to them, and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Everyone of the house of Israel who sets up his idols in his heart, and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, and then comes to the prophet, I the LORD will answer him who comes, according to the multitude of his idols, 5 that I may seize the house of Israel by their heart, because they are all estranged from Me by their idols.”’ 6 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Repent, turn away from your idols, and turn your faces away from all your abominations. 7 For anyone of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who separates himself from Me and sets up his idols in his heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, then comes to a prophet to inquire of him concerning Me, I the LORD will answer him by Myself. 8 I will set My face against that man and make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of My people. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.
9 “And if the prophet is induced to speak anything, I the LORD have induced that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel. 10 And they shall bear their iniquity; the punishment of the prophet shall be the same as the punishment of the one who inquired, 11 that the house of Israel may no longer stray from Me, nor be profaned anymore with all their transgressions, but that they may be My people and I may be their God,” says the Lord GOD.’”
Monday, July 05, 2010
A Question
I just read a new article on Berean Beacon called "Papacy Set to Recapture England". If you want to read it, you can download it by clicking on the title at the top of the website. While reading it, a question occurred to me: If one disagrees with the doctrines of justification and regeneration as taught by the reformed churches, as Cardinal John Henry Newman did, why does that make it necessary to run to Rome and swallow all the errors of Roman doctrine and practice, such as the Papacy, transubstantiation, Mary worship, etc.? Why not study the Bible and fellowship in a local church that teaches Biblical doctrine? No one has everything completely correct, but committing spiritual adultery with the Papal system is not an option. Their history is full of violence against God's people, and their so-called 'history' is full of outright forgeries, quotes from the Fathers taken out of context, and dependence upon the uninspired writings of mere men, rather than dependence upon the inspired scriptures interpreted by the Holy Spirit. And it seems that it is very important to some Catholics for you to admit that Mary is the 'Blessed Virgin' and 'The Mother of God' and to try praying to her. Why is that, I wonder? Because their religion is at heart a religion that places Mary between people and God, or in some cases replaces God with Mary. Again, why swallow poison mixed with a little goodness? Why do we have to choose between two corrupt institutions, when there are true churches right down the road from all of us?
Friday, June 25, 2010
Wednesday, June 16, 2010
Saturday, May 22, 2010
Thursday, March 25, 2010
The European Union, Rome, and Mary: Way of Life Literature
Here is an article by David Cloud of Way of Life Literature called 'The European Union, Rome, and Mary'.
Tuesday, January 19, 2010
'The Crucified Rabbi' on Visits to Candyland blog
We've been discussing some comments about a book called 'The Crucified Rabbi' on Visits to Candyland.
Wednesday, January 13, 2010
Saturday, January 02, 2010
Wednesday, December 30, 2009
Thursday, December 17, 2009
Wednesday, December 16, 2009
'Why Protestants Don't Pray to Mary' by Philip Schaff
Here is an interesting article about 'Why Protestants Don't Pray to Mary' quoting from historian Philip Schaff.
Monday, December 14, 2009
The Word of God vs. the word of 'Our Lady of Guadalupe'
Some passages from God's word:
At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:25-30
2 Samuel 22:
31 As for God, His way is perfect;
The word of the LORD is proven;
He is a shield to all who trust in Him.
32 “For who is God, except the LORD?
And who is a rock, except our God?
Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psalm 57:2
2 I will cry out to God Most High,
To God who performs all things for me.
Psalm 65:
5 By awesome deeds in righteousness You will answer us,
O God of our salvation,
You who are the confidence of all the ends of the earth,
And of the far-off seas;
Psalm 73:
25 Whom have I in heaven but You?
And there is none upon earth that I desire besides You.
26 My flesh and my heart fail;
But God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.
Psalm 118
8 It is better to trust in the LORD
Than to put confidence in man.
9 It is better to trust in the LORD
Than to put confidence in princes.
Proverbs 14:26-27
In the fear of the LORD there is strong confidence,
And His children will have a place of refuge.
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life,
To turn one away from the snares of death.
Isaiah 57:13
13 "When you cry out,
Let your collection of idols deliver you.
But the wind will carry them all away,
A breath will take them.
But he who puts his trust in Me shall possess the land,
And shall inherit My holy mountain.”
Jeremiah 2:13
“ For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water.
Jeremiah 17:13
O LORD, the hope of Israel,
All who forsake You shall be ashamed.
“ Those who depart from Me
Shall be written in the earth,
Because they have forsaken the LORD,
The fountain of living waters.”
John 4:14
"but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
John 6:35
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst."
John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
John 7:
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Revelation 7:17
"for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Revelation 21:6
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts."
The word given to Juan Diego by 'Our Lady of Guadalupe' on Tepayac hill in Mexico in 1531:
From here and here.
At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:25-30
2 Samuel 22:
31 As for God, His way is perfect;
The word of the LORD is proven;
He is a shield to all who trust in Him.
32 “For who is God, except the LORD?
And who is a rock, except our God?
Psalm 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psalm 57:2
2 I will cry out to God Most High,
To God who performs all things for me.
Psalm 65:
5 By awesome deeds in righteousness You will answer us,
O God of our salvation,
You who are the confidence of all the ends of the earth,
And of the far-off seas;
Psalm 73:
25 Whom have I in heaven but You?
And there is none upon earth that I desire besides You.
26 My flesh and my heart fail;
But God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.
Psalm 118
8 It is better to trust in the LORD
Than to put confidence in man.
9 It is better to trust in the LORD
Than to put confidence in princes.
Proverbs 14:26-27
In the fear of the LORD there is strong confidence,
And His children will have a place of refuge.
The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life,
To turn one away from the snares of death.
Isaiah 57:13
13 "When you cry out,
Let your collection of idols deliver you.
But the wind will carry them all away,
A breath will take them.
But he who puts his trust in Me shall possess the land,
And shall inherit My holy mountain.”
Jeremiah 2:13
“ For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water.
Jeremiah 17:13
O LORD, the hope of Israel,
All who forsake You shall be ashamed.
“ Those who depart from Me
Shall be written in the earth,
Because they have forsaken the LORD,
The fountain of living waters.”
John 4:14
"but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
John 6:35
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst."
John 6:45
It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.
John 7:
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Revelation 7:17
"for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Revelation 21:6
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts."
The word given to Juan Diego by 'Our Lady of Guadalupe' on Tepayac hill in Mexico in 1531:
Know for certain that I am the perfect and perpetual Virgin Mary, Mother of the True God. I wish that a temple be erected here quickly...Here I will show and offer all my love, my compassion, my help and protection to the people. I am your merciful Mother, the Mother of all who love me, of those who cry to me, of those who have confidence in me. Here I will hear their weeping and their sorrows and will remedy and alleviate their suffering, necessities and misfortunes... And to accomplish what my clemency pretends, go to the palace of the bishop of Mexico, and you will say to him that I manifest my great desire, that here on this plain a temple be built to me; you will accurately relate all you have seen and admired, and what you have heard... Listen and let it penetrate your heart... Do not be troubled or weighed down with grief. Do not fear any illness or vexations, anxiety or pain. Am I not here who am your Mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not your fountain of life? Are you not in the folds of my mantle? In the crossing of my arms? Is there anything else you need?
From here and here.
Thursday, December 10, 2009
Epiphanius: on adoration of Mary and the saints
Here are some quotes, mainly from one source (The first quote is from here), of Epiphanius of Salamis about Mary:
“Mary should be honored, but the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit should be worshipped; no one should worship Mary...Even though 'The tree is lovely' it is not for food; and even though Mary is all fair, and is holy and held in honor, she is not to be worshipped...And they drink impious drinks as the word of God says, 'And the women grind flour, and their sons gather wood to make cakes for the host of heaven.' Such women should be silenced by Jeremiah, and not frighten the world. They must not say, 'We honor the queen of heaven.'”
(Epiphanius, Panarion, Section VII, 59 [79], 7.5-8.2).
Let the saints be in honor, and their rest in glory. It is not, however, fitting to honor the saints more highly than is proper, but rather to honor their Lord. ... The honor which the saints in their time showed to God has become for others who did not see it truth turned into error.
(Epiphanius, Panarion, as quoted in Examination of the Council of Trent III, p. 467)
Some think and speak contemptuously about Mary; others however, inclining toward the other side, glorify her beyond what is fitting. ... Under the pretext that it is right, the devil secretly enters the mind of men and deifies mortal nature; he models statues which bear the human image, in order that they may adore the dead and introduce images for adoration, committing adultery with the mind against the one and only God. Yes, certainly, the body of Mary was holy, but she was not God. Yes, indeed, the Virgin was a virgin, and honorable, but she was not given to us to worship. She worshiped him to whom she gave birth from her flesh; the one who is from heaven and from the Father’s bosom. And for this reason the Gospel reassures us of this, the Lord himself declaring that: “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come” [Jn 2:4]. And so that no one would think from the words, “O woman, what have you to do with me,” that the holy Virgin is superior, he calls her “woman.”
(Epiphanius, Panarion 3.2:4, as quoted [in part] in Examination of the Council of Trent III, p. 468, and [in part] by the Tübingen theologians in Augsburg and Constantinople, p. 141)
What Scripture has told this? Which prophet has commanded to adore man? Elijah did not see death, but was taken into heaven. John reclined against the breast of the Lord. But neither was Elijah worshiped, even though he was among the living. Neither was John worshiped, although by his own prayers he attained a wondrous death, and received grace from God. Not even Thecla, nor any of the saints, were worshiped. For the ancient error will not conquer us: to abandon the Living and to worship those who have been made by him. For they worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, and became fools [cf. Rom 1:25]. For if he does not want the angels to be worshiped, how much more does he not want her who was born from Anna, who was given by Joachim to Anna, to be worshiped?
(Epiphanius, Panarion 3.2:5, as quoted [in part] in Examination of the Council of Trent III, p. 468, and [in part] by the Tübingen theologians in Augsburg and Constantinople, p. 140)
The Word, which is God, took on flesh from Mary, not however in order that the Virgin might be adored, neither that he might make her God. Let Mary be held in honor, but let the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit be worshiped; let no one worship Mary. This mystery is due God, not to women, neither to man. Nor does such a doxology belong to the angels. Let those things be erased which have been wrongly written in the heart of those who have been deceived. Let the lust of the idol be extinguished from the eyes. Let the creature return again to the Master. Let Eve with Adam return to honor God alone. Let no one be led by the voice of the serpent. Let him abide by the command of God. ... Although Mary is holy and to be honored, nevertheless she is not meant to be adored.
(Epiphanius, Panarion 3.2:7, as quoted [in part] in Examination of the Council of Trent III, p. 468, and [in part] by the Tübingen theologians in Augsburg and Constantinople, pp. 140-41)
“Mary should be honored, but the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit should be worshipped; no one should worship Mary...Even though 'The tree is lovely' it is not for food; and even though Mary is all fair, and is holy and held in honor, she is not to be worshipped...And they drink impious drinks as the word of God says, 'And the women grind flour, and their sons gather wood to make cakes for the host of heaven.' Such women should be silenced by Jeremiah, and not frighten the world. They must not say, 'We honor the queen of heaven.'”
(Epiphanius, Panarion, Section VII, 59 [79], 7.5-8.2).
Let the saints be in honor, and their rest in glory. It is not, however, fitting to honor the saints more highly than is proper, but rather to honor their Lord. ... The honor which the saints in their time showed to God has become for others who did not see it truth turned into error.
(Epiphanius, Panarion, as quoted in Examination of the Council of Trent III, p. 467)
Some think and speak contemptuously about Mary; others however, inclining toward the other side, glorify her beyond what is fitting. ... Under the pretext that it is right, the devil secretly enters the mind of men and deifies mortal nature; he models statues which bear the human image, in order that they may adore the dead and introduce images for adoration, committing adultery with the mind against the one and only God. Yes, certainly, the body of Mary was holy, but she was not God. Yes, indeed, the Virgin was a virgin, and honorable, but she was not given to us to worship. She worshiped him to whom she gave birth from her flesh; the one who is from heaven and from the Father’s bosom. And for this reason the Gospel reassures us of this, the Lord himself declaring that: “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come” [Jn 2:4]. And so that no one would think from the words, “O woman, what have you to do with me,” that the holy Virgin is superior, he calls her “woman.”
(Epiphanius, Panarion 3.2:4, as quoted [in part] in Examination of the Council of Trent III, p. 468, and [in part] by the Tübingen theologians in Augsburg and Constantinople, p. 141)
What Scripture has told this? Which prophet has commanded to adore man? Elijah did not see death, but was taken into heaven. John reclined against the breast of the Lord. But neither was Elijah worshiped, even though he was among the living. Neither was John worshiped, although by his own prayers he attained a wondrous death, and received grace from God. Not even Thecla, nor any of the saints, were worshiped. For the ancient error will not conquer us: to abandon the Living and to worship those who have been made by him. For they worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, and became fools [cf. Rom 1:25]. For if he does not want the angels to be worshiped, how much more does he not want her who was born from Anna, who was given by Joachim to Anna, to be worshiped?
(Epiphanius, Panarion 3.2:5, as quoted [in part] in Examination of the Council of Trent III, p. 468, and [in part] by the Tübingen theologians in Augsburg and Constantinople, p. 140)
The Word, which is God, took on flesh from Mary, not however in order that the Virgin might be adored, neither that he might make her God. Let Mary be held in honor, but let the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit be worshiped; let no one worship Mary. This mystery is due God, not to women, neither to man. Nor does such a doxology belong to the angels. Let those things be erased which have been wrongly written in the heart of those who have been deceived. Let the lust of the idol be extinguished from the eyes. Let the creature return again to the Master. Let Eve with Adam return to honor God alone. Let no one be led by the voice of the serpent. Let him abide by the command of God. ... Although Mary is holy and to be honored, nevertheless she is not meant to be adored.
(Epiphanius, Panarion 3.2:7, as quoted [in part] in Examination of the Council of Trent III, p. 468, and [in part] by the Tübingen theologians in Augsburg and Constantinople, pp. 140-41)
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