tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post4806231371664690030..comments2024-03-20T10:16:21.352-04:00Comments on Pilgrims' Daughter: Prayer ChallengeJenniehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-43359056028573074622010-09-13T09:14:35.514-04:002010-09-13T09:14:35.514-04:00Agreed.Agreed.Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11127291742330663617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-85139646093613539672010-09-12T16:45:09.805-04:002010-09-12T16:45:09.805-04:00I believe it's important to point out differen...I believe it's important to point out differences when they pertain to the gospel message and may affect people's salvation. There is nothing more important.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-38357573225808522332010-09-12T11:43:23.540-04:002010-09-12T11:43:23.540-04:00Good for your Dad for reading First Things as one ...Good for your Dad for reading First Things as one of his sources. It's not exclusively Catholic by any means - and seeks to find common ground among Christians of different types and Jews as well. Do you read it? Do you believe finding common ground is worthwhile, or is it more important to highlight differences? Why?Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11127291742330663617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-90584573189871094752010-09-11T23:47:17.993-04:002010-09-11T23:47:17.993-04:00My Dad gets First Things, as a present from my bro...My Dad gets First Things, as a present from my brother. <br />He likes to read alot and has always been interested in questions of truth. He's an electrical engineer, retired. When I was a girl, after he came to Christ, he studied evolution vs. creation constantly and came to believe in a 6 day creation. He also studied predestination and eternal security for years. After studying he came to believe that predestination must mean something besides God predestining some to eternal punishment and some to eternal life. He also doesn't believe in 'once saved, always saved' but believes one can defect from the faith. <br />My Dad doesn't go to church because he's so nontraditional and so determined to find and understand truth, but he found that when he expressed his beliefs people would look at him like he had two heads, and think he was heretical. He's not at all; he's just not conventional and thinks very deeply about things that most people don't. I'm a little like him in some ways, but he's much smarter. He's working on some kind of alternative idea to Einstein's work about gravity and light and electrical fields, etc. which I don't even understand enough to explain here. <br />Anyways, he likes to read the views in the magazine, but he doesn't think any church has got it right. On the other hand, he doesn't think the Catholic Church is any more wrong than any of the others. He's right that most are astray. But I wish and pray he would find a church to gather with and find encouragement from.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-4437066630459220252010-09-11T19:33:44.904-04:002010-09-11T19:33:44.904-04:00I believe Bonhoeffer is very much admired by Catho...I believe Bonhoeffer is very much admired by Catholics and Protestants alike.<br /><br />First Things - I highly recommend this to you, Jennie, and anyone else.Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11127291742330663617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-59414667364536130392010-09-11T17:40:06.817-04:002010-09-11T17:40:06.817-04:00Good review of the Bonhoeffer book, "Bonhoeff...Good review of the Bonhoeffer book, "Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy," in the latest issue of First Things by Charles Chaput. Looks like a good read. Will have get the debit card out.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188632219211162350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-43576479471292144202010-09-11T10:51:22.731-04:002010-09-11T10:51:22.731-04:00"What legacy did Merton ultimately leave at t..."What legacy did Merton ultimately leave at the end? He was going towards some sort of mystical union that unites all religions, supposedly. <br />Well, I'll try to read both books and see what I find out."<br /> Your understanding of Merton is wrong. He has been a favorite target of many Catholics and Protestants. Regardless I am fairly certain he would pose no threat to your brand of Christianity. He is worth the read if only to discover how someone else thinks. Or you can continue to be swayed by all those websites that love to put him down without actually reading in full and in context the source, something you already do quite often.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188632219211162350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-89144557765232878352010-09-11T08:11:57.253-04:002010-09-11T08:11:57.253-04:00Me too!Me too!Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11127291742330663617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-25558024368387999872010-09-11T02:51:50.804-04:002010-09-11T02:51:50.804-04:00Jennie,
If you are honestly interested reading b...Jennie, <br /><br />If you are honestly interested reading books written by Catholics who understand scripture and Church teaching, I would be happy to send you some which are gathering dust. I also have Protestant books, but I am sure you have plenty of those. I also have cassettes and CD's.Leohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15058964412856897008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-40780729670024130882010-09-10T23:10:11.756-04:002010-09-10T23:10:11.756-04:00I'm not sure if I can explain, but in thinking...I'm not sure if I can explain, but in thinking about whether it's a good or helpful thing to read a book by Merton, who seems to be a man who didn't know which way he was going and didn't know anything for sure, I then compare him to what I know of Bonhoeffer, who knew for sure which Way he was going, and therefore always actively lived by his convictions, and corrected himself by scripture and was sensitive to the leading of God's Spirit and word, so that he always had courage and lived in a way that showed he was on a firm foundation. He understood things that most didn't see until it was too late, and he had the courage to live his convictions unto death.<br /><br />What legacy did Merton ultimately leave at the end? He was going towards some sort of mystical union that unites all religions, supposedly. <br />Well, I'll try to read both books and see what I find out.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-83679661003307704582010-09-10T21:58:50.039-04:002010-09-10T21:58:50.039-04:00I've read that and "Christ the Center&quo...I've read that and "Christ the Center" - long, long time ago. Could bear to be re-read but I suspect the Lutheran/Continent ethos is pretty much lost on me.Moonshadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11277057132720569896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-81737824489737555012010-09-10T21:56:21.804-04:002010-09-10T21:56:21.804-04:00Anybody read anything by or about Dietrich Bonhoef...Anybody read anything by or about Dietrich Bonhoeffer? My husband just read a new bio, very long, about him, and then started reading one of his books, 'The Cost of Discipleship'. I haven't read the bio yet, but it sounds very interesting. My husband has it on Kindle. I need to get one of those. My birthday's coming up soon; maybe I'll get me one.<br />Here's my husband Eddie's short review of the book. http://gesnipes.blogspot.com/2010/06/review-of-bonhoeffer-pastor-martyr.htmlJenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-44979301431655656962010-09-10T21:35:45.870-04:002010-09-10T21:35:45.870-04:00Nothing online by Merton to speak of but I would s...Nothing online by Merton to speak of but I would start with the Seven Story Mountain. Also, Faith and Violence, any of the journals, Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander, The Asian Journal. He was prolific. Some I agreed with, some not so much, but people that do not read him are missing out on one of the most interesting writers or thinkers of the past century. The biography by Michael Mott is also worth a read.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188632219211162350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-7993951340090965822010-09-10T21:24:35.723-04:002010-09-10T21:24:35.723-04:00Merton's first book is sort of an autobiograph...Merton's first book is sort of an autobiography, Jennie, but can be read as a novel. He's a great writer even if one doesn't accept his philosophy/theology. I liked his references to Jamestown, NY because I'm originally from there. But I also like his NYC references. I can relate less to his experiences in Europe.<br /><br />John, what of Merton do you recommend be read? Anything found online?Moonshadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11277057132720569896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-3742368966495198192010-09-10T20:53:46.148-04:002010-09-10T20:53:46.148-04:00"I knew what Catholic sources would say, so I..."I knew what Catholic sources would say, so I went to see if there were other sources." Get to the library, read, and give yourself bit of credibility. Perhaps your husband could watch the kiddies. It works for my wife and our five children. You never know, you may discover something that you did not know a Catholic source would say.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188632219211162350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-15122104584553058742010-09-10T20:31:52.274-04:002010-09-10T20:31:52.274-04:00Again what what the last book by a Catholic auther...Again what what the last book by a Catholic auther you actually read from cover to cover?<br /><br />I haven't read very many books of any kind from cover to cover lately. I read mainly online, having no budget to buy books. I did read as much of Scott Hahn's book 'Rome Sweet Home' as I could find online. I've read quite a few online conversion stories. I've read 'The Return of the Prodigal Son' by Henry Nouwen quite some time ago. I keep thinking I need to make a list and bring it to the library, but I never remember to do that, having 5 girls to herd around while I'm there. <br />As I said, I read mainly online, and mainly articles, and some books, on subjects that occur to me as I go along. I'm not very systematic about it. <br />After all, I started out here wanting to find out if it was really true that the RCC was the church that covered all the Western world for hundreds of years, or if there was another consistent presence outside of it and dissenting from it. So I looked for sources that explained the dissenting or other separate traditions. And also, I knew the Catholic Church claimed to be the original church, but so many things in it seemed inconsistent with what I had learned in scripture, that I wanted to see the perspective of protestant historians on that too. I knew what Catholic sources would say, so I went to see if there were other sources. To me, its like evolution. The belief of it has permeated our culture, but it's contrary to scripture. The belief that the RCC was THE church has permeated our culture. What if that's not true either? That's one of the questions I had.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-68904165058010703742010-09-10T18:47:45.563-04:002010-09-10T18:47:45.563-04:00the last book by a Catholic auther you actually re...<b>the last book by a Catholic auther you actually read from cover to cover? </b><br /><br />wink, wink, I hear she's read the Bible.Moonshadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11277057132720569896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-26014060836849750402010-09-10T18:45:52.400-04:002010-09-10T18:45:52.400-04:00author. Thinking faster than I type.author. Thinking faster than I type.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188632219211162350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-69781070792968351172010-09-10T18:43:28.740-04:002010-09-10T18:43:28.740-04:00Gee, what else is new? Again what what the last b...Gee, what else is new? Again what what the last book by a Catholic auther you actually read from cover to cover?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188632219211162350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-76408268174305359362010-09-10T18:42:40.179-04:002010-09-10T18:42:40.179-04:00John said: it might be better if you comment on so...John said: <b>it might be better if you comment on something [like Merton] you have actually read.</b><br /><br />Well, you, John, and I introduced Merton so we can't fault Jennie for not being as well-versed as we. I think she's entitled to react to what was quoted.Moonshadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11277057132720569896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-45969488524621154712010-09-10T18:35:28.851-04:002010-09-10T18:35:28.851-04:00John,
if I were going to do a post on Merton, I wo...John,<br />if I were going to do a post on Merton, I would read some of his books, but for the sake of answering one or two comments, I went to Teresa's link and started reading that page. Immediately I found things that stood out to me as being contrary to scripture. That doesn't bode well for the rest of it. I would like to read more of it. There are so many things to read that it's hard to know where to start.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-35813265566337148272010-09-10T16:07:49.276-04:002010-09-10T16:07:49.276-04:00make that John XXIIImake that John XXIIIJohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188632219211162350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-50358456182220263042010-09-10T16:05:22.783-04:002010-09-10T16:05:22.783-04:00Jennie,
you said "I haven't actually rea...Jennie,<br /> you said "I haven't actually read any of Thomas Merton's books, just quotes from them." I think it might be better if you comment on something you have actually read. I could be wrong, but my impression is your method is to copy and paste from others without actually reading complete original sources. You said as much when discussing Francis Beckwith, Papal Encyclicals, and now Merton. I have read Merton extensively. I have spoken personally with the lay brother that was his driver at Gethsamani. It is true that it is difficult to know where he was going to end up in his spiritual journey. I am not sure myself. That being said his conversion story and journals display an intellectual honesty that was recognized by many, from John XXII to Martin Luther King (King actually was to meet with Merton before he, King, was killed. I would be curious to know what was the last book by a Catholic author you actually read from cover to cover. If you really are sincere about learning about the Church, I would expect you to have read quite a few. If that is not the case, then your supposed quest is a farce.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15188632219211162350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-66752239840166370962010-09-10T15:04:49.792-04:002010-09-10T15:04:49.792-04:00"Became available to scholars in the original..."Became available to scholars in the original languages". When was this, in your mind? What scholars?<br /><br />Who do you think laboriously copied over and over the scriptures in the original languages? Catholic monks, that's who. Again, I ask you to read broadly - for example "How the Irish Saved Civilization" - this book made me mad sometimes for critiquing the Church in some ways, but it was fascinating in showing how the Church was the guardian of the scriptures and without the monks - who knows? <br /><br />So where was the Faith before there were literate peoples with common language scriptures in their own hands?Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11127291742330663617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31521339.post-85762433439410769912010-09-10T14:54:06.610-04:002010-09-10T14:54:06.610-04:00Christine,
I've interacted directly with Catho...Christine,<br />I've interacted directly with Catholic documents describing Catholic doctrine, and with protestant documents and explanations of protestant doctrines. I don't agree with any of them totally, but the protestants were definitely right in their dependence upon scripture and their basic understanding of salvation and justification which comes from scripture. They also were right in repudiating many Catholic practices. There is an obvious discrepancy when one has been steeped in Scripture and then is exposed to certain Roman Catholic teachings. It is immediately apparent that they are not correct and have no foundation.<br />This is what happened, generally speaking, when the scriptures became available to scholars in the original Greek and Hebrew, and then were translated into the common languages, so all people could read them. The discrepancies between Catholic practice and Scripture became apparent.Jenniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17126868703568627388noreply@blogger.com